Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

The upgrade ..

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' started by Blue14, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. So often do we read about will this bike be to powerful for me, will i come off because it has too much power. Well my honest opinion is if you twist the throttle too far on any bike, you are putting yourself in danger. Yes there are some menacing bikes on the market, be it 1400cc, 1000cc, 600cc, etc you will be able to do some mind blowing speeds. I often think why should you have to buy a 600cc because someone says its safer ?? Is it really any safer than that really gorgeous litre bike you have always dreamt of, and want to buy.. NO !! I got my fair share of flaming when i upgraded from the ZZR250 on to a new 05 ZX12R, but thats what i wanted, so thats what i bought. I was paying for it, i was insuring it, it was my money and it was my decision. All the salesman said to me before i left Cosways was, respect the throttle and you will be right for life. So when you are ready for your new bike, or ready for your upgrade, go test the bikes you want, and buy the bike that you really want, not what someone else wants you to have.

  2. Has someone had a bad day today? :p
  3. Hmmm, i have had better, although i had a discussion with someone today who was wanting to buy a new bike, and his head had been filled with so much crap. :? :grin:
  4. hmmm... interesting (i think i will play devils advocate :cool: )

    Are you suggesting that a jump in bikes alike to yours is a good idea for everyone that considered the move from, lets say a 250 to a hyper bike like yours?

    I am a far way from the rider i want to be (need more years and some extra tuition) but even i laugh when i spot a rider who appears to have no idea how to handle thier 1000cc, and i know SOME of them jumped to that bike from a 250.

    At the end of the day i always want to enjoy my time on the bike- and be able to do it again tomorow. I find that experience possible on 27 year old 500cc bikes and 5 year old super sport, and 1 year old 1200cc weapons ( always enjoyable for different reasons). If you can handle that 1000cc then sure but it- but keep in mind that any bike will help maintain your longevity if you buy in accordance with your ability and not your ego.
  5. So true!

    I am also amazed how so many people who have ridden nothing but sub-calibre bike bag the top end jobs! :roll:

    I do respect the fact that some people can't afford $+20 k toys, but bikes after all are a hobby and regarless of size or power, can get you as effectively as a push bike if your not careful
  6. You are right, it may not be for everyone, but if you feel comfortable then why not buy it ??
  7. May we ask your riding resume?
  8. you hit the nail on the head blue14. I totally think that once you're past your P's, if you reckon you want one, just get one if you can afford to buy and insure it.
    One of my grandfathers died while stepping out of a car and crossing the road, so I have no time for people that reckon big bikes are dangerous, duh, so is walking, or breathing for that matter, let alone swimming, working out or renovating your roof!!
    I have devised a test for salespeople, tell them you've just got your full license and ask about the Gixxer thou or R1 etc... If they say it's too much, walk away and find another salesperson. Chances are they haven't even ridden one themselves.
    My take is this, if you ride within the speed limit and your own limits, you'll be fine.
    In fact I'll go so far as say that you'll be safer on a bigger bike than a small one as the current big numbers, 1000+ tend to have better brakes and better acceleration to get out in a hurry. (I'm referring to sydney cbd speeds of 50kph).
    Also smaller bikes allow you to do far more illegal things like lane split your way through moving traffic on the harbour bridge, a much larger bike owner will think twice about that knowing the cost of repairing it and the difficulty in fitting through tightly packed traffic. Notwithstanding the fact that most 250s will allow you to do almost 2 and half times the average in city speed limit in no time at all.(I'm referring to sydney cbd speeds of 50kph).
  9. Yup, I've done that on my bike and she just bluuuhhh and tried to spin out(just last week).

    I would agree on the stuff you said. I know that its really up to the rider to be sensible to what they have. I know I can kill myself just as easy on a 50cc scooter and on a 1000+cc bike.

    At the moment I'n really looking at the zx14r. I just love their size but I just cant afford it. I'm not even sure I can afford a good 600 at moment (looking at 06-07 R6 or any cbr600rr or any gsx600r). I still have 9months to save up anyways :)
  10. My favorite topic on here!!!!

    The bestest threads are the ones that kinda go like this.....

    - Hi everyone, just wondering whether or not i should go for a 600cc bike as an upgrade to my 250 or straight to a 1000cc bike. Im worried i wont be able to handle the power of a 1000cc and everyone tells me theyre dangerous.....

    Reply 1 - 600cc bike mate!!! Much safer than 1000cc and much lighter therefor more fun in the corners.

    Reply 2 - Just go for the ltr bike bud. Respect the throttle and youll be fine.

    Reply 3 - 1000cc!!! Are you serious?! The poor bloke will be dead in a week!

    Reply 4 - Yeah i know, 1000cc bikes are shit for cornering too. 600 is much better and much more manageable than a 1000cc. I bet my mate would kick any of your asses on any 1000cc bike whilst riding his gsxr600.

    Reply 5 - (my favorite too!) You probably cant ride your 250 to its full potential so why do you think you need a 1000cc??

    Reply 6 - A 600cc bike will be just as quick as a 1000cc bike on the track. Go the 600cc. Theyre safer and easier to handle.

    And so forth...

    General gist i get from alot of threads like this is that most guys who ride 600 or 750 bikes say theyre better handling bikes and JUST AS QUICK AS A 1000CC BIKE!!! Yet, maintain that its a logical upgrade from a 250 and the 1000cc upgrade is stupid or dangerous.

    In reality, there is 2/5ths of fugg all difference in the performance of any of these machines! Theyre all missiles. They will all kill you just as quick. If a kwaka zx6, zx10 and zx14 all dragged each other in a straight line and all crashed, I can guarantee you the top speeds before impact would be within a few kms of each other!! Still, all 3 riders would be dead.

    But hey, a 600 is a much more logical upgrade from a 250.......

    Ps: congrats on the sale paulie. That was quick!
  11. i gotta agree with ya on this bambam
    i opened up my new k5 750 up a few times today and its stupidly fast
    now over a 1/4 mile the 750 is half a second slower then the 1000 thats 1 - 2 bike lenghs difference which is fark all,
    so it dont matter what bike u ride if ya a nuffnuff yourll end up in tears no matter how fast ya bike is, be it 600-636-675-750-1000-1200-1400 etc their all fast..
    i just choose the 750 as it was a lil more user friendly then the 1000 and required a little more imput and gear selection to make it boogy.
    hense why i ride a 250 2 stroker in the bush.......
  12. +1 Blue14 & Bambam101..


    Everytime one of those weekly threads pop up, link to this thread is to
    be posted. :grin:
  13. Just going to be pedantic on this one.

    Typical 1/4 mile velocity for many bikes is 200-230kph, or 56-64m/s. Half a second slower would mean a 28-32m difference, or around 13-15 bike lengths, not 1 or 2.

    To be fair to those who do caution about bigger bikes, the real reasons are these (and yes, they all center around the wisdom of the rider):

    1) Ability to power wheelie. Aside from first gear and pinned at full-throttle, most 600cc bikes won't power-wheelie, and when they do power-wheelie, it won't be so fast as to flip the bike before even a novice rider can react. Litre+ bikes can power-wheelie at part-throttle in first and second, and at full throttle in third and even fouth given the right conditions. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that bikes don't steer too well with the front wheel off the ground. Yeah - you'd have to be a numpty to do it, but it does happen.

    2) By the time they're ready to upgrade, yer typical 250cc sporting learner has probably progressed to the point where they're getting somewhat quick. In order to keep up (to a certain degree) they've learned that they need to pin the throttle to the stop pretty much the split-second they're off full-lean. Do that on a litre bike, and if the bike doesn't wheelie you into the scenery, you'll be sliding down the road after your highside. Do that on a 600cc bike, and the front wheel may leave the road momentarily, and you might get the rear stepping out, but it's more easily controlled.

    3) Cold tyres. Related to 2) above. Litre+ bikes have the grunt to overwhelm cold tyre traction fairly easily. Super-sports don't.

    When people say that a litre+ bike can be dangerous as an first upgrade option, they're not talking about the outright speed. Any speed above 40kph can be fatal given an unfortunate set of circumstances, and even a postie bike will do that. People are talking about the differences in the ways that the bikes behave in comparison to a lower-powered bike, particularly in the areas of wheelying and tyre traction control. Attempt to ride a litre bike like you rode your 250cc bike, and given that you rode your 250cc bike aggressively, you'll scare yourself or worse.

    Having said all of the above, it's all about throttle control. The reality of it is though is that most learner bikes have so little power that throttle control isn't a skill that the first-time upgrader has even begun to develop yet. The super-sports are right at the border-line of forgiveness for ham-fisted throttle control - right at the point where the fool might just scare himself, as opposed to crash, before correct throttle control respect is learned.

    Of course, if you approach your first time on a litre+ bike with suitable caution and always treat the throttle with respect, then you won't have a problem. That's usually true when the rider is by themselves, but best intentions typically go out the window the moment said novice rider sees someone up ahead who used to leave them for dead when they were on their 250cc bike, and thinking that their shiny new litre bike is what will make all the difference, the red-mist descends, and so proceeds to throw tempered caution to the wind...
  14. Yeah definately go buy a ZX-14RRRX straight off your P's - your mates will think you are like, totally cool, and you can go REALLY fast in a straight line! Plus no need to worry about those pesky gear changes much...
  15. Makes good sense.

    All of the modern 600 & 1000+ cc bikes will kill you easily. They all go fast, just respect that fun handle, and any litre bike is as easy to ride at walking pace as any 600cc bike.

    As Blue said, buy the bike you want, not what others have scared you into getting. Just know that you must exercise self control.
  16. mind you, my 250:
    a full throttle on lean can slide the rear
    a full throttle from low rpm equal to slug acceleration
    a full throttle while leaning, means extra rear shock compression, equal to massive reduction in lean angle, which means that peg scrapping (or foot scraping) can happen at any lean angle (unpredictable!)
    leaning while not maintaining correct rpm with throttle means almost zero engine feedback/braking
  17. I went straight from a ZZR 250 to a litre bike, too. Mind you, my bike is 12 years old. It's probably no quicker than a modern 600. I spent 2 1/2 years on the 250, putting in over 35k k's, and felt that, at 35, I was mature enough to make the right choices with my riding.

    I didn't skip the 600 class due to an ego trip, though. I wanted a bike that I could throw Mrs Tree on the back of and go touring one day, maybe with a trailer. I'm not going to be in a position to buy another bike too soon, so I went with the bike I truly wanted straight up.
  18. hey pro pilot

    riding 4 years done more than 2000k on these bikes

    GPX 250, Thundercat, K100RT, R100RS, R1200S, and just rego'd a CX500. The BMW's are my old mans but i ride them often.

    want to do some track and other tuition days- saving the dollars now!
  19. Hey 14's can go fast around corners too.. And yeah its great when you hit the freeway, and go 1st, 2nd, then 3,4,5,6. :p
  20. With the right rider on the bike :p