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The po-po (and why we're f**ked)

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Chef, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. Had an interesting weekend that I want to share with you, it's border line politics but i think it deserves to be in general.

    A little bit of background then we're into it. A ride buddy had a major prang on the weekend, he crossed the line into oncoming traffic and had a head on with a car. He didn't walk away but he did all right just the same :)

    I got the chance to have a really good look at the accident site and went over it with a decent copper and we reached the same conclusions about the impact.

    What isn't clear is how he got there in the first place. I know the guy and have seen him ride, and he's been doing it for quite some time. I put him in the very capable but reserved category, he rides with maturity and doesn't go on kitten killing expeditions.

    As the last of the site was being cleared and the ambo was preparing to leave, the 'other' copper pipes up and I hear him over say "clearly riding too hard." To which I responded I beg your pardon?

    So he manned up and looked me in the eye and repeated, "he was going too hard." To which i replied how do you know that?

    His answer is a cracker in that it speaks volumes of the ignorance some of those vested with an authority over us are afflicted with. "He crossed the white line so clearly he was going too hard for the corner."

    In other words, that bellend is going to tick the 'speed was a factor' box on his report.

    A heated discussion ensured where we swapped ideas about other possible reasons for being on the wrong side of the road. Well when i say swapped ideas I gave him a few but he decided to stick with his one.

    I explained that 80k/ph on two different lines gives two different exits and two different outcomes.

    Another member of the crew who was seconds ahead of the downed rider told us as he came around the corner a 4wd was in his lane. I'll concede it may not be the exact answer, but the possibility remains the 4wd pushed the rider off his line and triggered the series of events.

    The downed rider didn't have a clear recollection of events and i'm not sure he will. So as a witness he's pretty sketchy unless his memory comes good.

    The concern is the officers steadfast attitude that it must be 'going too hard' that caused the crash. Even saying if he was going slower he could of corrected for the 4wd. So I asked him how fast he thought we should go, would 5k/ph do it for him?

    If the rider was in the speed limit and another road user broke the law resulting in an accident, he didn't give a shit about it.

    I'm beginning to seriously question the stats that say 70% of riders are at fault in an accident. If that's all the evidence they need they can forget it. I have my own stat they may be interested in, 70% of the police are clueless when it comes to motorcycle accidents. so pretty please with sugar on top, get fvcked.

    As an aside,
    3 cop cars
    5 cops
    2 ambos
    2 firetrucks
    3 tow trucks

    1 rider down.

    i've seen your billboards saying 3000 extra police will be out to catch us. Explain to me why you can't send two of them to go and get the footage of the car that did a hit and run on my friend after he went through all of the trouble to organise it for you. Can you do that? Is the answer that you're under resourced? Cos i don't believe you, I believe you're a waste of resources.
  2. Please tell me he wasn't a bike riding cop!
  3. Nah mate, cager.

    Our parting words were;

    "I ride a bike"
    "I know you do"
    "Well that's all you know"

  4. I won't comment on the specific case, because I wasn't there.

    However, speaking in a general sense, I can state with some confidence that accident investigation techniques, procedures and reporting in Australia are truly shitful. And, yes, that is based on several years of professional involvement in such things.
  5. Mate, hope your mate gets good quick. As I said in another post there are:

    In this case it would appear that GIGO will also add to the above.
  6. I'd bet a money a bike cop would have agreed with you. Sounds like the cager cops get no bike education.
  7. I am going to do my best to remember that line and hope that if the day comes, I have the presence of mind to use it.
  8. would love to say i am shocked but sad to say i am not, **** the lot of em....

    best wishes to your mate for a speedy recovery
  9. I hear ya Pat. I've tried to be as delicate and specific as possible about the scenario as I could without going too far. I'm not saying you do but i realise that there will be some who read this thread and will want to play devil's advocate. And I concede he may have just plain phucked up and payed for it, but my anger is born out of the copper jumping to it as his first conclusion.

    As to your point, information has recently come to light that the Vic force have been enlightened to their inconsistent and poorly executed crash investigation and statistic collection. It's a beginning.

    Considering the remote locations of some of these accidents you wonder what they can do about it. They only send the crash investigation unit out to certain fatalities, otherwise it's just the plod, or worse still the TMU.

    Thanks brother. He'll be fine once the public hospital system is up and running again, until then he'll have to be patient. On that note, I now know why they call them patients.....boom boom.
    Ahem, sorry :oops:

    Imagine if they threw the resources into the medical system that they're throwing into enforcement. Be a more pleasant state to live in. Hopefully he'll get his operation soon.

    What the hell's a GIGO?

    I've had some interesting chats with bike cops about 'stuff', so i tend to agree.

    Interestingly, the 'good cop' was an absolute legend to work with, couldn't of asked for more. He took care of and handled everyone at the scene with the utmost respect. I got the impression he has a mate/s that rides.

    When we were leaving I made it a point of giving him the thumbs up (y) in front the other cocksmok.... umm, the other copper.

    He said something that caught my ear too. He said he wouldn't be looking to fine my bud if he could help it, because ending up in the back of an ambo is punishment enough. But he said "it all comes down to politics these days, if the TAC push for it I'll have no choice."

    Well fvck me. The TAC are telling Vicpol how to do their jobs are they?
  10. GIGO - garbage in garbage out
  11. It did give me a certain level of satisfaction, but then he did spend a lot of his time after that looking at me and looking at my bike, so it nearly ended badly :LOL:

    Thanks brother. A prang is just God's way of saying it's time to upgrade ;)
  12. Roger that. Makes sense.

    Too much sense.
  13. Chef,
    Truly sorry to hear about your buddy - that's tragic mate !
    I take my hat off to you with regards to your dealings with the insensitive, uneducated arsehole of a cop who was quick with his uninformed 'finger pointing' of your mate's outcome...what a tossbag !
    Again, win the respect of others and the world will gladly follow. For the VicPolice to attend rigorous induction training comprising of communication skills, theory and DISCIPLINE, one has to wonder how some 'got through'...
    The VicPolice, from what I've seen during my 6mths back, from an extensive period overseas, are a complete waste of time/resources and steer the local community further away from being law-abiding citizens, by their finger-pointing, money-hungry revenue raising practices !
    Kudos to you mate and speedy recovery for your friend.
  14. One of the things happening out of the Community Policing and Education programme here was to put about 90 cops through a basic introduction to motorcycles at HART.

    It was intended to give them some basic knowledge of motorcycles (and motorcycling) so they could see and understand WHY some things happen(like you mention). I gather it was well received and has made a difference in some attitudes.

    Unfortunately it sounds as if this bloke wasn't one of those.
  15. Sad to say it is all political in any case so none of the results can be trusted.
  16. Thanks brother I truly appreciate it. :)

    I'll tell ya something. You go flying up the road and having a healthy dose of shits 'n' giggles and the sky is blue and the birds are chirping and the tyres are sticking like shit to a blanket. It's impossible for life to get any better than that.

    Then you stop at the of the road for a regroup and wait for the rest of the crew...
    and you wait
    and then you wonder
    and then you wait some more
    and then your heart sinks

    ..and then you turn around and head back down the road shitting yourself. There's this stoopid game of cat and mouse inside your head where you tell yourself not to be so dramaitc and it's probably nothing. But the voice can only be quietened, never silenced.

    You can't go fast cos your thinking's not clear, but every cell inside your body is screaming 'can we just fu.cking get there already'

    You constantly tell yourself over and over that there's nothing to worry about as you try to drown out the voice of doom. Then you come around 'the' corner you've been dreading and you see a car with it's side punched in and your mate laying in the middle of the road. Your heart finishes it's descent into the pit of your stomach.

    So from there I stopped and quickly took in the scene, and everything seemed to be under control so head straight to my mate and check on him. He's face down so I can't see his eyes to know how he is. He's sounds winded and shocked and there's spit dripping out of his helmet making a puddle.

    I hold his hand and tell him he's going to be ok and there's nothing to worry about. Gently but firmly he squeezes my hand and i know his spine's in tact. My heart begins it's slow journey back where it belongs and i can start to think clearly again.

    He asks about his bike and we tell him it's fine, that'll buff right out mate.

    Then there's the long wait for the ambo and the green whistle to arrive. And the fu.cking tow truck driver who's first on the scene and just can't wait to tow something. Thankfully he was told to fvck off by the cops cos he was out of jurisdiction. Then all the other shit goes down with the copper in the OP.

    Strange thing fear. It can sit there and remain hidden under the surface until triggered. I thought I was doing fine until that copper opened his mouth. Then the fear turned to anger so quickly it caught me off guard. And I suspect it caught the copper off guard too, cos for a moment there i clearly had him on the back foot. Thankfully it all dissipated and we went our separate ways, and hopefully I'll never have the pleasure of bumping into that tool again.
  17. Tony I'm more concerned about the line of "If the TAC tell him to book the rider etc..." This needs a follow up.
    The only person who makes those decisions should be the copper on the spot.
    Anything else is an abuse of process.
  18. Mate,
    Fear is indeed something most people struggle to deal with...we are human, after all !
    Your account of the event above is gut-wrenching mate, and throughout the entire read, I couldn't ignore feelings of a similar thing ever happening to a close family member/ride buddy and how I would deal with it...probably terribly, to say the least !
    You see, I very often ride with my twin brother and being the older of the two, somehow, I find myself being the TEC (if you can call it that with only 2 of us in the 'group')...maybe it's the 'older' bro being protective etc. When I ride with him, I always try and slow our pace down by not following in quick pursuit (well not always ;) ) should we race off at the lights, whilst on backroads or during heavily congested roads.
    Seriously glad your mate is okay and kudos to you for support - that's what mates are for and I'm sure he'll never forget you being there for him that day.

    "That'll buff right out mate" - Legendary (y)

  19. Bit quirky isn't it? I know of a story of a rider involved in a single vehicle accident that had an independent witness give a statement to the po-po that the rider was doing the posted speed limit. Again there was no discernible reason for the rider to leave the road and the rider can't remember what caused it. Just a front end slip and bye bye.

    A week later and they get a phonecall from the attending officer saying they need the rider to come and give a statement and there will probably be a charge laid. The officer indicated it would be 'the one above careless'.

    During the phone conversation after the rider said I'm sorry I really can't remember what happened, the officer said "that's a shame because if a kangaroo had of hopped out in front of you...."

    What ensued after that makes my blood boil. The rider was then harassed, threatened, and intimidated by the local filth because they refused to go to the station to give a statement after receiving legal advice to that nature.

    That story is the first of it's kind in Victoria that I have heard of where they've tried to lay a charge against a rider for a single vehicle accident. And if some nong from N.S.W tells me it happens up there so help me...

    Until I heard what the copper said about the TAC it never made the slightest bit of sense. Now though.....hmmm
  20. Yep - because if the rider is deemed 'at fault' after being fined TAC can pay out less.

    This was the story my ex got from TAC and his laywer after he had his off and he got a total payout of 28K (not inc. medical and the 'income' stuff).