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The Outlaws vs Wowsers Cagematch Thread

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by Bravus, Aug 4, 2008.

  1. It comes up here now and then: 'This forum is getting overrun with wowsers'. Is it the case - or is there a certain amount of oversensitivity to anyone daring to suggest that they might think or act differently than the 'outlaw' making the complaint?

    I suspect it's our old friend the false dichotomy: the wild and crazy outlaw vs the upright law-abiding citizen. This is illustrated when the 230 km/h-on-the-back-wheel-in-the-CBD person comes out with the 'you have no right to criticise me if you ever creep over the speed limit at all anywhere'.

    In reality, I think we're all on a continuum. There will always be those who are faster than me and those who are slower, and there will always be those who have a different attitude to, for example, the sacredness or otherwise of the law.

    I suspect that the balance here is pretty much what it's always been - and that people will tend to say "I think differently" and get called wowsers for doing so.
  2. Shut up, you're giving bikers a bad name.
  3. Hey, bish, I'm a 20%er! :p
  4. You're right, I reckon perspectives are changing...

    State governments keep shifting the goal-posts for just how safe is safe.
    On one hand, more and more people find what they'll allow in their own behaviour criminalised, so they sympathise less with the law as we are encouraged to pay more attention to numbers than conditions.

    Flipside = the wowsers get a boost to their righteous indignation via government sponsored marketing, and the good old "You knew it was against the law, it's your own fault. Pay it/do it/put up with it." line stays in their holster.

    I think the true believers are growing in numbers, but the wowsers are just getting louder as their numbers dwindle :)
  5. I'm constantly amazed by the sticklers for the law on this forum. Sometimes I think I've logged into my knitting forum by mistake.
  6. it is a reflection of the desire for certainty in uncertain times. People desire that other people keep inside the lines because they think the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

    Can it be true that people are buying the government advertising?

    To the people who slammed the bloke about the free petrol, FFS get a life!

    And what about the wowser movement inside federal politics at the moment! :roll:
  7. I think all those are fair points. I also think sometimes the 'wowser' card gets played a bit more often than is warranted, though.

    I'm not personally any sort of stickler for the law: I'm amazed that I still have as many points as I do. But I've made comments along the lines of 'do the crime, do the time'. To me that's a matter of having the courage of your convictions: if you know what the law is, and break it, and get caught, then you have the balls to accept that that's what happened, and don't snivel as though the cop victimised you by doing his job. If you disagree with the law, then by all means break it - or, even better, work and lobby to get it changed. But I think it's kinda pathetic to call cops pricks, for example, on account of your own actions catching up with you.

    Of course, given that I live in a state with much less insane laws (3 km wtfbbq?!), it might be easier for me to say...
  8. cagematch?? all you guys have done so far is tickle each other with feathers :LOL:
  9. For me the line is if it's reasonable. If a cop pings me for filtering, for example, then "do the crime, do the time" is just dumb. Any cop that enforces that is a prick. Plain and simple.

    Laws are not absolute, in that if they are unfair then we have the right to lobby our governments to have them changed.

    I hate the attitude "if you don't like the law then don't live in Australia". To me that attitude is "unAustrlain". Our constitution allows change and the right to instigate change is part of being Australian.
  10. Agreed, absolutely: fight to have the law changed.

    Or, you know, break it intentionally to show it's stupid. Civil disobedience. But one of the principles of civil disobedience was being willing to take the consequences.

    It's my job to teach courses and mark assignments. Sometimes even *I* think the assigning of marks for these courses is stupid - they're professional courses intended to make people into good teachers, not academic courses intended to test how well people can write academic papers in APA format. But still, people choose whether to fulfil the requirements of the assignment or not. Does it make me a prick if I give them a low mark if they choose not to?
  11. depends whether not fulfilling the requirement detracts from their learning.
  13. Can it be true that people are buying the government line…
    My workplace has just moved so now I use the link between the Tulla & Bolte. I have had two people comment that it sounds dangerous doing the freeway every morning, and the look they gave me when I told them that the freeway was the “safest part of the trip†What but it is a 100 zone. I half expected them to follow it up with “And you know speed killsâ€.

    So yes People are buying it and they seem to be happy to pay full retail.
  14. Of course it does. All assignment markers are pricks :wink: .

    But seriously and on topic, I've actually found myself to be less and less tolerant of idiotic, poorly drafted, ill thought out or indiscriminately applied laws as I've grown older. A few years on the regulator side of the fence also taught me to recognise bad laws or poor enforcement practices far better than I once could.

    As a result, I have, if anything become more inclined to ignore laws which inconvenience me, provided my own behaviour does not impact negatively on others (with a few qualifiers). However, if caught, there's not much to be done but cop it sweet. Do something you know to be illegal and you can hardly reasonably complain when it catches up with you. As far as I'm concerned, that's all part of the cost-benefit analysis.

    As far as some cops acting like pricks with unnecessarily rigid enforcement practices, yes it sucks, but there probably isn't a better alternative than allowing it to happen (as opposed to condoning or actively encouraging it). As I learnt when involved with traffic regulation, (and this is specific to WA) basically noone is empowered to direct a policeman to not enforce the written law. Not his superior officer, not the Commissioner, not the Police Minister, noone. There are good reasons for this, most of which should be fairly obvious and have to do with corruption and political interference. Unfortunately, this means that if the cop wants to be an overzealous prick in the application of the law, there's not really a mechanism to prevent it, but the alternatives are significantly less palatable. If, however, our hypothetical cop is incorrect in his interpretation of the law, that is for the court system to sort out which, by and large, it does.

    I would be the last to claim the system is perfect, or even particularly fair (who's got the money for even a minor court challenge?) but demonstrably better alternatives are thin on the ground.

    Best option is to not get caught :grin: .
  15. Perfect example of a wowser. :roll:

    Personally I'd love to spend a week with Mt t here, just to see how many holes I can pick in his moralistic, holier-than-thou lifestyle. I'll bet there would be shitloads :LOL:

    Quote of the month champ :wink:
  16. Sad, isn't it :cry:

    So many people I know are also spouting the same garbage Jase. It's not until you explain to them a few real facts that you can see the light start to switch on.

    One person at a time people :wink:
  17. Stuff being a bloody Wowser. Doesn't seem like much good fun going on there.
  18. I aint no saint buddy. I do things that are legally/morally wrong nearly everyday, ie speeding, swearing, but I don't RIP people off. Simple as that. You lot just don't get it do you. This society of ours today has drawn the line alot farther away than it used to be, and a result, people get ripped off or lose out so much more.

    And if Mt t is a spelling error and is suposed to be MR T, then I have some advice for you, " Get some nuts" :LOL:
  19. Bravus said:
    What gives people the right to think differently than me?? Bunch of bloody wowsers.

    matti-san said:
    Obviously another wowser who dares think differently to me. The petrol was in Sydney FFS. It was going to cost me a fortune to get it.

  20. So true........but at the same time i dont think highly of someone who intentionally brags about breaking the law for wateva reason(speeding or wateva) for eg the thread about top speeds.........but thats just me :)

    I think that boris from amcn summed it up a while ago with his speal about 'beige riders' cant remember exactly wat was said and cant be bothered to find that issue but hopefully someone knows wat im talkin bout :p Something along the lines of losing the passion for riding and being pummeled with the idea that we're all gonna die if we break the law........i really cant remember :p