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N/A | National The "Nothing to hide argument"

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by robsalvv, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. This isn't quite a topic related to the politics or laws of motorcycling, but the "I have nothing to hide" argument is often put up by conservative riders when faced with new and more restrictive laws related to motorcycling or even more broadly about road laws.

    I figure it would be worthwhile these folks exploring the fallacy of such an argument.

    Wiki has an entry on this type of argument, but it's kind of incomplete - but worth a conversation starter.


    For a bit of deeper treatment about the topic, check out this link...


    Or this one...


    The famous catch cry of slashing civil liberties - if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear...

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  2. You do absolutely nothing that could ever be construed as suspicious/controversial by anyone
    exactly, and 99% of the population fall into this category.......
  3. There are problems with data mining that can occur even if one is doing nothing that is actually against the law at the time.

    For example the government might change and the law might later alter and an offence might be made retrospective and a person disadvantaged or even charged (that's happened with tax laws at times).

    Or the database might be compromised/leaked/hacked/sold to third parties who would use the information that is outside the original intent. In some countries data mining has been used to refuse health insurance or to set unrealistic premiums.

    Or actions can be legal in one country (say whistle blower regulations exist there) but against the law in another (where you would be charged).

    The situation is becoming more pervasive and the small part of these issues that effects motorcycling or even all road user monitoring is merely the tip of the iceberg.
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  4. Nothing, ever and anyone are in bold for a reason, it is impossible for anyone to align with this statement let alone 99% of the population, motorcycling is considered both controversial and suspicious by some so despite what you seem to think you certainly do not align with this comment. I genuinely hope you were baiting.

    Ever type something topical into a search engine? clicked on a link that directed you to something shady? held a view that you later reconsidered? done or said something you regretted?
    Just because you see it as innocent doesn't mean that everyone else will see it the same way. Anyone who claims they have nothing to hide fails to understand they complexity of the issue and the diversity of humanity
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  5. Allowing the government, or any other entity, unrestricted access to personal information on the grounds that you believe you have nothing to hide is naive in the extreme. While the "Nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument seems simple enough, it only takes a couple of minutes' thought before the flaws become obvious.

    Another issue with this argument is the implication that anyone who objects is probably a criminal of some sort, eg. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. You fear this, so you must have something to hide."
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  6. I remember reading a news article from England, it might have even been on here, about a gentlemen who was arrested for having child pornography on his computer.

    Long story short, they were quite innocent photos of his grandchildren running through the sprinkler in their underwear and the charges were dropped, but it took months for this to occur.
    I'll bet this bloke thought he had nothing to hide. What have you got on your PC, phone, GPS etc that could, in the wrong context, be used against you.
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  7. Whether I have anything to hide or not, I refuse to have my every online activity surveilled. So I will be happy to pay for an offshore VPN service, which I will connect to using an internet gateway so every device behind the gateway will have all internetwork traffic encrypted and almost untraceable.
  8. Forgive me if I'm wrong @robslavv

    surveillance. I'm not really all that pleased that the NSW cops are keeping ANPR photos in a database that can then be used to track my movements.
  9. hmmmmm I look back on the last 30 years and think there is some stuff that I might not like people to know about.

    Nothing bad but certainly some things that are perhaps only done with the enthusiasm of youth.....

    I have certainly got some pictures of my son and daughter - Think in the bath together ( They were 3 and 4 at the time ) that some nutter might think were not that innocent if they did not know that I was their father. Again it is all about context hey, I suspect the one with Grace holding an open stubbie might not be that great either.......
  10. Never used a phone have you?
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  11. I have nothing to hide because I have my tin foil hat and clothes hangers hanging from my ceiling.

    Big Brother is watching.
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  12. Good point, I suppose that one is a bit unavoidable since VPN on a mobile network would probably suck pretty hard, but still the majority of my activity is over a WiFi network with an internet gateway connected to physical lines.
  13. The whole information gathering thing is creepy and growing exponentially. I'm at a loss to see a way to stem the tide.
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  14. I have never thought about this.... and probably never will again
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  15. Hope that works out for you.
  16. Having worked in the Aust Gov't for quite a number of years, and having seen first hand their ability to gather, sort, and report on information they have......I'm not worried about this one little bit. What is being talked about would require some degree of organisation and techological capability that simply does not exist currently within the Aus Gov't (at a Federal level).
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  17. This thread seems to be limiting the "nothing to hide" fallacy to online data collection, for the most part. These guys disagree:

  18. They will outsource it.
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  19. So what you're saying is that they'll almost certainly fcuk it up?

    I agree, but is that going to make people with "nothing to hide" any more safe, or more likely to draw attention for no good reason while actual criminals are able to easily avoid scrutiny because the Government has no clue what it's doing?

    I don't feel any more safe because of incompetence.
  20. If you guys don't feel safe because "the gov't" might start collecting some new information which they don't know what to do with and currently have no way of processing, then you would probably cr@p yourselves if you had any concept of what they already know about each and every one of you.

    In the end, just because something is news, doesn't make it new.
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