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The moral dilemma

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by titus, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Regular readers will know that I've been a test-ride ho' for quite a while now - ridden just about everything that appeals to me. And while I had no intention of buying at the time, it's always been with the intention that one day I'd move on the S3 for something younger and prettier. Then without warning the S3 suddenly has heaps of ks on and isn't worth a cracker as a trade in.

    So the other day a mate comes around and walking past the bike says (joking-like) "I'll give ya $XXXX for it!". Now the thing is, this is like pretty much what I think the thing is worth, but I go, "No - want 500 more than that." Joking.

    A strange look comes over his face, the smile fades and he says (very seriously), "Done. When can I pick it up?"

    Now I'm all compromised. This guy hasn't ridden for twenty years, isn't always in complete control of his faculties, and has two little kids to support. Yeah, I'd like to go out and buy a new bike, and yeah, he's as keen as mustard but if he doesn't buy mine, he probably won't buy one at all.

    I know I'm not my brothers keeper, but I can just imagine him getting himself into harms way on that thing. He reckons he'll only ride now and again, but that's almost as bad IMHO. I'm just not sure I can live with the responsibility of putting him out on the road under these circumstances.
    Now he's ringing up every second day. I have to make a decision one way or the other and I honestly don't know what to do.

  2. You can't be sure of that; maybe the tiger has wakened up and if he doesn't buy your's, he WILL buy someone else's.

    I'd be more concerned about your assessment of his mental condition....
  3. Ah... it's more that he tends to see the world through a 'haze', at times...
  4. You want to sell the bike, he wants to buy it. He's a grown up.

    But you could maybe shave some $$$'s off the price if you're feeling charitable.
  5. Do what you thinks right.

    But if you wana learn from others mistakes, dont sell him the bike.

    Explain it to him, offer him your pushbike or somthing.
  6. Ask his wife if she's comfortable letting him ride.

    If you get the nod from her there's no one to blame but himself.
  7. If your emphasis of the word haze is an indication of what I assume it to be then I too have a friend who has been telling me about how he is buying a bike - and he is in a 'haze' at least 20times a day I'd say.

    Maybe you could approach him with your concerns?
  8. Hmmm, food for thought.

    TarmacSamurai - no not feeling charitable. Hr can afford it. Maybe I should UP the price to make him think about it a bit?

    Dario - what I think is "right" is complicated. I tend to believe people should be free to make their own decisions for good or bad, just a bit uneasy about this one.

    Screwball - good idea. I think I'll have a talk with her.

    Jomo - you assume right, but he's not as bad as that. In fact I should be fair to him and admit he's pretty good with awareness on the road. He gave up riding when he saw his mate get cleaned up right in front of him, so he knows the story.

    I think I'll set a couple of hurdles for him to clear before I agree to the deal.
  9. If he's a mate explain your concerns.
    Make sure he understands what you saying and where you're coming from.
    If he's still keen sell him the bike. You will have done all you need to do.
    Going to his wife is a bit girly.
  10. Good on you, for having a conscience mate!! Maybe we are not our brothers keepers, and we don't have to live with them, but we ARE stuck living with ourselves.

    I'd say that if he is obviously making a thoughtful decision and it's not just a "I woke up today and want a bike - oh!...there's one!" sort of purchase, then let it go, mate...maybe give him some serious pointers etc, to help minimize his chances of doing something stupid.
    Either way, the minute he take to the controls, his destiny is largely in his own hands and out of yours.
  11. As you and others have said, he is an adult, he can afford it and has ridden before and seen first hand the risks we all face out there.

    I think the answer to this one is more self-centred. Think about yourself! Run through a bunch of possible scenarios and try to think whether if any of them eventuated whether you would feel unbearable guilt.

    It's easy for me to say sitting here, but if you sell him the bike, assuming it's in good nick with nothing mechanically wrong with it, then whatever happens on it and the ongoing maintenance of it is his responsibility, so there is no need for you to then feel responsible for his riding.

    As others have said though, it would probably be a good idea before the sale just to explain your concerns and reservations, and that you care for his well-being, but then if he still wants it, you'd love to see him on it and go for some rides with him (if that's true). ;)

    You never know, it might all go great, and you are responsible for a whole lot of joy in his life, rather than all the bad stuff!

    Butz. :beer:
  12. If this guy is your mate then it is your responsibility to say you’re a moron, you are going to die out there because… And lay it out for him.
    As a friend he should take your word as meaning something. Once that is all done, if he thinks he is up to it, and if you have warned him. Then go ahead, sell him the bike.
    Your responsibility to a mate is to tell it to him straight. His responsibility to you is to listen and respect what you have to say. After that you should respect his decision. That is part of what being a friend is about.
  13. I agree with butzull and falcon-lord and most of the others. Tell him the truth and clear your conscience, then let him make up his own mind.

    If he is really that kind of guy then he probably won't have the cash anyhow. Get ALL the cash before you hand over the bike, or you'll never see any of the remainder. And make sure the transfer is all legal and proper too.
  14. A lot of sense in the replies. Just think of how you would feel if he bought it & hurt himself or worse his wife left him !!!

    If you didn't know him then by all means sell him the bike, however if he's a mate you have to do the right thing.
  15. I've been in the other situation where a mate of mine had a bike that I was interested in. He hadn't ridden it since a mutual friend died in a bike accident. He explained that he wasn't comfortable selling it to me in case something happened so I left it at that. I was still a bit pissed about missing out on a $1000 RGV in perfect condition though.
  16. I assume all of you guys are 18+ years old.
    Everyone is responsible for its own actions/behaviour.
    I would strongly suggest him to do some "Refresher courses" at bike school. Also, buying proper riding gears is a must !
    If you really like him you might consider paying for the bike school.
    Talking to his wife is not girlish, it is insulting.

  17. You said he'd been a rider before and stopped riding? What bikes has he had before and how much experience? The S3 is a lot of bike, so if he'd ridden 250s a long time ago I'd be worried, but if he stopped riding a litre bike 3 years ago after riding for 10 years, for example, much less so.

    But I agree with others - you need to talk to him seriously about your concerns, in some detail, then let him make the final decision and accept the consequences.

    The other thing I thought about (somewhat discomfittingly) is that there's the same risk for any random bozo we sell our bikes to privately - it's just that in this case you know about it. Not sure whether this insight is at all helpful!
  18. The mans an adult, let him make his won decisions, if youre his friend,

    inform him as much as you can, suggest things ways of getting around your concerns,

    talk to his wife, thats asking to be the meat in the sandwich :shock:
  19. Yeah, some good sense in these replies. Telling the truth, the whole truth, is the way to go.

    The wife: I know her well enough to be sure she wouldn't object. No concerns about being caught in the middle. BUT, she's also potentially affected, needs to know all the facts, and have a chance to have her say. Doesn't make it her decision, though.

    Hotcam: payment will not be an issue. I've got ALL KINDS of incriminating evidence, should I need it :p

    Butzul: I AM being self-centred, I think. My concern is how I would feel if the worst happened, and I DO want to protect myself - from myself.

    Falcon-lord: I like your approach. I think I'll try it.

    Bosi: Great idea. The bike'll come with a course voucher. Maybe my old gear, too.

    He IS an adult. He SHOULD know the risk. Last bike he had was a Z1. My main concerns are a) his vulnerable family situation (makes me a hypocrite, I s'pose) and b) the fact that it's been so long since he rode. I KNOW how much riskier it is out there now than it was even five years ago, let alone twenty.

    He's going to have to jump through a few strategically placed hoops if he wants this bike, I think.

    Thanks for the valuable input, folks.
  20. I dunno. I've done business with mates before and usually regretted it for one reason or another tp some degree.

    If you think the bike is not that great then it could really be a cause of tension.

    If you do do business with him make sure you spell out each and every problem with the bike and even the ones you think will be coming up in the future.