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The Limit

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by RussellDP, Apr 8, 2016.

  1. Hiya all,

    I have been riding for about 6 months now, and felt like I have been making good progress on the bike, braking better, riding smoother, taking smoother lines through corners, ridden in the wet, the rain and extreme heat, and now am riding 100% of the time as I had to loan my car to my son.

    I feel like I am setting up generally well for corners, have learned how to adjust the line through the corners if needed and have a few favourite little bends near home that I use as a bit of a touch stone - in effect, seeing if I can get them better every time I go around them.

    I would love to know how far over I am cranking the bike sometimes, but to this point I don't feel like I have ever gone too far, which begs the question.

    How do you know when you are about to go too far?

    In a car, you generally get a bit of a warning if the car is about to lose traction or slide, so I ask if the same thing happens on a bike? Is there a way when you can feel via the sensory inputs when you have reached a point that physics wont allow you to go beyond?

    How do these things feel when they start to happen? Is it a wobble? How would you describe the sensation of being part way through a corner and realising "Oh F......"

    I don't think I have gone close to this point yet, but I would be interested to know what warning signs I may get.
  2. I have a roundabout on the way home where I turn left, I have taken it too hard before and you can feel the back wheel slip. Has happened 3 times and it is not a wobble, it just feels like it is sliding around and going to drop and then suddenly it grips and puts you straight up, exactly like a highside crash. Luckily for me I am not going fast enough to complete the 'highside' motion and once I am up I can just keep going... It is definitely an "OH Fu....." moment.

    Unfortunately I don't feel warning signs like a car, you know when it is already happening. In the car if a back wheel starts to slide it has other wheels to catch and keep it going, that is what you feel I think. Whereas on the bike once that back wheel slides you have nothing else to catch it.
  3. Hey RussellDPRussellDP , the easy answer is you will feel it just like driving a car... I thought I was leaning... until I went to Tassie and scrapped pegs on lots of corners.

    MpfprocessMpfprocess , did you scrape pegs before it slipped or was there some other reason it let go like oil, etc.?
  4. RussellDPRussellDP - go do a track day at nearby Broadford to see how much more you can do in a safer environment. With tuition is a plus...but bloody fun regardless.
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  5. #5 CraigA, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
    Chilli has a point. Have you done any rider training in a closed course environment? It would be worth every dollar at this point in your riding.
    Alternatively, get an old dirt bike, something small, cheap, light and not overly powerful (no not a CR500) and wring it's neck to improve your road riding. You'll get feel for a bike sliding and moving around a lot more at much lower speeds than a track day.

    On the road you can have some warning or very little, depending on the circumstances, so it's a hard one to talk about or give info/advice on.
  6. Yes, fair points all, thanks for the responses, and no, I haven't done a track day at all, so may well be worth investigating for future development.
  7. Nah didnt scrape pegs, it is a notoriously bad roundabout. Add any sort of rain and that roundabout is slip central
  8. Highly recommend it!!! Will let you focus your attention on you and you bike rather than cars, oncoming traffic, litter on road etc!!! You will think you've been riding for 12 months not 6!!!
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  9. There are exceptions of course but the average 6 month rider is probably not leaning to the limits. Usually for newer riders, the limit is a comfort/fear limit rather than the limit of bike and tyres. Things like scraping the pegs and chicken strips can give some indication of limit but not absolute as all bikes and tyres are different and unless you are on a racetrack road surfaces are not consistent. Even tyre pressures on the day will affect the limit.

    Probably the easiest thing is to ride with someone, let them watch you and let you know how far you are leaning. Most likely it will be less than you think.
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  10. My poor little Hyo....will have to look at doing something from Mid May on when my time starts to free up, but I really appreciate the comments guys
  11. Easy to tell on my little monster as pegs, etc... will scrape before getting to the edge of the tyre. Is about a cm of chicken strip seems i'll never scrub off on this bike. I am too heavy for the suspension though, so maybe stranger springs would give me a chance.

    Also, when the corners are bumpy I can feel the front feeling like its going to let go when am riding spiritedly - I try be very gentle with her when feel that happening. Need better tyres too I think!
  12. Tyres are what determines your limit quite often. Old, hard tyres will let go before your pegs are a scraping.
  13. Yeah, my bike has Pirelli Angel ST - too hard on the sides and rear is starting to square off. Shall get Diablo Corse or similar dual compound when replace them.
  14. There's a roundabout on my commute that has an odd single-lane exit that requires an extra bit of lean and I've felt the rear tyre just begin to slip once or twice. There may be some oil/diesel/other on the surface that contributes to this.

    I've only scraped pegs 2-3 times (and I did not like it much!) but there was also a similar narrow strip of untouched rubber on my rear tyre after ~16,000 kilometres.
  15. If it's the first time this has happened your SRs will override all and you've got to be lucky. Poo comes out.

    If it's not the first time this has happened, and you've had some training, you will override the SRs and push/lean/throttle more - not less. Poo still comes out.
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  16. On one tyre?
    I was pushing to get 6500km out or my rear.
  17. I have found the limit of my tires and put it down. It is not the best idea. I have caught the bike many time's but the front tire let go and I was down before I knew what had happened. Now I am just too old to be getting to the point where you may come off through riding too hard.
  18. When pushing it on the sportbike I could feel the front start to shudder and slide just a fraction when it was at it's limit.

    Though let's be honest, whenever any of us have got that signal it's about to give way, there was probably nothing that we consciously could have been done to save or lose it. It suddenly rights itself, you pucker that ring and get on with life.
  19. Would you believe me if I told you that there was at least 2,000-3,000 kilometres worth of tread left on the outer part of the tyres when they were replaced (the centre of both tyres had less than the minimum 1.5 mm of tread remaining above the wear indicators)? My commute is very straight for 30 highway kilometres and I've squared two rear tyres in the past 18 months. I'm using dual compound Michelin Pilot Road 4 tyres which while expensive, have an exceptional durability. It's just that roundabout that finds me cranked over a bit more than usual and where I've felt a horrible squirm from the back tyre.