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The Green Church

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Not4Resale, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. Not sure how I feel about this argument.

    On the one hand I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that Green activists are taking on quite a religious undertone however, having actually delved into this subject content, I can't say that I agree with his position that appears to suggest that there is no threat to our current civilization's future.

    Environmentalism: The New Death Cult?
  2. Yes, I agree that the environmentalists are dancing to a religious tune. But if the religion is right what are you left with?
  3. I've certainly met quite a few deep Greens who have spoken in exactly the same reading-from-a-teleprompter-on-the-back-of-their-eyeballs sort of way as many religious fanatics do. I find it intensely irritating but I don't think it automatically means they're wrong.

    There are also some parallels in the "you must live how we say you should or you'll end up in hell" approach, although we're promised a hell on earth rather than in the afterlife.

    Oh yes, and a tendency to high moral ground wowserism.

    Which is a shame because I'm basically left of centre, socially liberal (note the small "l"), and environmentally concerned, so I tend to wonder, if the hardliners and the rather wet dilettantes piss me off to the extent that they do, the impression they give the mainstream pretty much knackers any chance of popular support.
  4. hey wanna save the world -- kill yourself first is what I tell them
  5. Much of the ecosystem is very stressed and nearing a point of collapse. I can understand the frustration of the vocal greenies trying to get people to understand the seriousness of the situation.

    I can't see the point in complaining though as there is not a chance that the human race will do anything but continue to breed and consume.
  6. A turning point for me was when I read a news paper article about 5 years ago when in perth. The Greenies were complaining that the wind generators in albany were weapons of mass destruction for birds. Well your damned if you do, and your damned if you dont. greens are out to rebel, yet they are typically the biggest hypocrites you will meet. They see only what they are interested in, and fail to take into account the big picture. It is, as far as I am concerned, nothing more than a new religion. Been saying this for ages.

    I am a conservationist, not a green. I beleive in sustainable reuse of resources, i dont believe in banning all and sundry. If the greens dont like that, then maybe they should get back to nature and stop using power and eating food from the local shops.
  7. I almost decided to stop reading after this gem:

    "They are going after religions which, in the west at least, are in terminal decline, and whose influence is miniscule bordering on non-existent."

    Cristianity - influence non-existent - in the West? Has this guy not heard of the USA?

    Anyway - I skimmed some more.

    Most environmentalists aren't raving loonies. Cherry picking quotes doesn't prove they are.

    And anyway - I listen to the science.
  8. Yup, listen to the science.

    I can only speak for the Victorian wind farm protests and it's not the greenies who are complaining about them it's the tree changers who don't want their view spoiled. They were the ones who came up with 'Save the Orange Bellied Parrot' campaign.

    The biggest killers of birds are cats, cars and windows. Wind farms are a long way down the list.

    I'm a tree changer and live in an area that has been earmarked for wind farms. I say go for it.
  9. Hmmmm. This notion has been on my mind for a long time - ever since I realised it was impossible to have a sensible conversation with most of the evangelical converts.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that climate change is probably happening and humans are at least partly responsible.

    But when you give away your capacity to think critically, and instead turn to dogma and mantra... well, your open to any deception that someone may want to play on you.
  10. I'm a bit of a greeny, used to go in protests when I was at university, but have mellowed a bit since university. But the one thing which really pissed me off about green dogma was the belief that "nuclear is bad". I'm sorry but climate change is a far bigger problem then nuclear waste and nuclear energy has been proven to be a clean economically viable alternative to coal. If the greenies didn't maintain this dogma and we adopted nuclear power along time ago Australias would not be in the position as one of the worlds biggest carbon emmitors.
    Its seriously stupid, we are a leading exporter of uranium, we have one of the most geologically stable environment for long term storage of radioactive waste and we are one of the few western countries not taking advantage of nuclear energy.
  11. There were a couple of people protesting about coal today. Scaled the ANZ building and dropped down a huge banner. I wonder if these idiots use electricity? This is the gall these morons have. They are not from brisbane, they obviously did not walk here, so somewhere along the line they have *gasp* used coal. To top if off, the morons at greenpeace used a projector to project images onto a wall of a building recently, to protest against coal... Maybe they had a bunch of greenies peddling on generators to run the projector. Bunch of hypocrites, the lot of them.
  12. Sorry, that is a really stupid argument. So they're not allowed to protest the method of electricity generation because they use electricity?

    I hope you never complain about banking fees if you use any banking services. Never complain about speed limits on the roads and use them.
  13. Perhaps, but my point is that they are hypocrites. I bet if you suggested that we try out nuclear energy, they would also oppose that. Then put in wind generators and they compain it kills birds. Like I said earlier, they fail to see the bigger picture. Put your efforts into finding solutions instead, its far more productive.

    I was listening to triple j last night when they were discussing the murray darling issue. Once again the government does everything to please the green vote rather than making sensible descisions. If the farmers are using water at sustainable levels, then what is the issue? Its clear that most of the farmers have realised they can just take what they want anymore, so they improve famring practices, reduce water consumption but still the greens are not happy. But if the general population was starving to death because their is no produce, then what?

    The issues dont stop there, its everywhere. Its preventing us from living a decent lifestyle anymore. For those that voted green in the last election, I beg you to take a look at their narcissistic, communist policies regarding environment and economy. Even if these idiots did get into power, they would soon realise that they could not do it, because its not possible.

    If we lived the green rule, we would have to cull half the population.
  14. Firstly, I've never heard of green groups opposing wind farms except in areas around wetlands. It's not the greenies who oppose them, it's the tree changers who don't want to have their views spoilt.

    You are kidding yourself if you think that farmers as a whole do things for the environment. They are in it to make money. How much do the owners of Cubby Station give a shit about those down stream? The answer is none at all. The farmers don't want to change the way that they use water. If you listen to the community meetings, so many of them say "We've been irrigating this way for four generations. If we don't get the same allocation then we're doomed."

    The economy is the environment. Without a healthy ecosystem, we're all frucked.

    If we don't start taking the environmental problems that we face really seriously and really soon, mother nature will cull our population and that won't be pretty.

    There are solutions but they require us to change the way we behave. So far there is no evidence that we are doing anything of substance.
  15. So whats worse, sustainable usage of murray darling water, or mining of unsustainable resources? What materials are you wearing now? Oil or water? Ban both?
  16. sustainable farming =low food miles +apropriat crops dont bye grapes from usa in winter dont grow rice or cotton in oz +piss on your lemon tree
  17. Unsustainable use of the river to the point that it kills the ecosystem is worse. If we use all of a resource up it will cause us humans pain but killing ecosystems will kill us in the end.

    I personally wear second hand clothes for the most part. I've built my own strawbale house and grow quite a bit of my own food.

    It isn't about banning water use, it's about using the resource responsibly. We've got to balance the needs of the environment with our own. Failure to do so will come back and bite us on the bum.
  18. this tired old 'bash the farmers' argument again

    farmers' quotas for irrigation are only available when rivers flow at levels which allow them to be accessed; thousands of farmers in the Murray Darling basin have been praying for rain during this long drought because the rivers have been too low for them to access ANY water for their crops.

    you would prefer that we buy all our food from China, perhaps, or places overseas without quality control and produced by virtual slave labour, while our Australian farmers go on the dole because they can't farm any more?
  19. I'm not bashing the farmers. I'm suggesting that we need to look at the resource usage. The science says we're using too much of the resource. Growing rice and cotton in the middle of Australia makes no sense.

    We could grow hemp for all of our clothing, toilet paper and regular paper needs and use 1/4 of the amount of water that cotton or trees use and improve the soil in the process.

    Most of the complaints about the Murray Darling Plan are a beat up. Farmers will have to use less in the good times but in return they'll get to use more in the bad.
  20. point taken (y)