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Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Wolve, Feb 17, 2011.
The VMC constitutes 2 people/members only (Detlef Lamp + ??) and has even less representation than MRA, or the homeless guy living near the Aquarium. It exists, and always has, only in a poor attempt to give some sort of validity to Detlef. In years past, requests for it's Constitution were ignored/denied. This sort of statement is an example of why the MRA is now facing this decision.
VMC at present is an unknown quantity, but I guess in theory has a more suitable structure to be a body that represents motorcycling across industry (manufacturers & training), retail (bikes and gear) and riders (clubs and individuals) - it just doesn't have any of those yet. Things have gone beyond needing rider representation, what's needed now is motorcycling representation.
This same shift has to happen in every state and then come together under a national body to be marshalled as a collective voice. It's a big issue and one that must be dealt with if motorcycling is to be taken credibly - it needs this above all else, to be taken credibily. There are already clear indications of institutionalised bias against riding - and this will only get worse without effective representation. An effective national body should have the clout to lobby for all motorcyclists at a national level and get people onto transport boards and committees given that motorcycling is a genuine and bonafide road user group.
In 1999 there were 340ish thousand registered motorcycles. In 2010 this was 600ish thousand motorcycles. In 2020 there should be over a million. Now add city congestion and fuel issues and this could actually cause that million to look like a very conservative estimate. The authorities driven by short term safety statistics fear this trend and it blinds them from seeing how motorcycling can constructively fit into the bigger picture and help address many of their road transport competing issues simultaneously.
MRAV doesn't have that structure and carries a crap load of baggage so despite some of it's unheralded good works, isn't going to be able galvanise a new chapter - there's just too much baggage.
Good luck Wolve.
Good luck to all of us.
You really didn't read the whole paper did you[-(?
You took no notice of the background - you just took a swipe at history....FFS You have missed the point Jason. And, that is not like you.
Grant and others have put in many hours of work - and all you can do is shit can it.
READ the document - particularly the section titled The Crunch.
The future has nothing to do with people or names - its The Concept.
I am disappointed that you would choose to insult the group of people who have been working on this. Many of them are Netriders, and many of them have not been involved with MRA or its history.
Be careful what you say - because you are insulting riders who don't deserve such comments....
If riders are to have any chance of being adequately represented then IMHO this is a Big Step in the right direction.
If it goes pear shaped, then riders will get what they deserve. And to date they have let themselves down by not getting their collective shit together. Now, the people working on this have put in some hard effort and they don't deserve comments like yours....
Interestingly, this move is being made in concert with all the other states and has the blessing of AMC. It is following the leadership shown by Rob Colligan and his success with MCCNSW.
Rob, you are the sort of Leader who needs to get involved with this organisation change. I see the stuff you write here - and I like it>>
Forget what VMC is now, or who the people are who run it now, its a name - that the new organisation will use - until a better name can be found. It will only work if riders show unity - free of egos.
OH FFS, get over yourself Karamouche. You arrogant attitude and pig-headedness is one of the very reasons why the MRA is now facing this decision and under your leadership as President could not pull itself out of ongoing ruin.
If people are insulted by the fact that steering riders towards an essentially defunct organisation - that for many, many years has had only 2 members and no constituion publically available - then how can those supporting it expect any credibility or respect?
One sentence in an esentially departing/desolving announcement pushing riders towards an unknown and private organisation. I will insult these people if that is what they expect/want, and that's what it takes. They are insulting us riders by expecting it!
Where is the constition of the VMC? What is it's forward plan? What is membership and representation entitlement? Why has it been defunct/dormant and elitist until now? Will it be stacked by ex-MRA'ist looking to shed a name, but keep the same thinking and baggage?
You can't seriously expect to push MRA members towards such an organisation without any of these details and be taken seriously. This sort of attitude and attack on my response is exactly why the MRA is in the predicament and why the VMC as a conceptual idea may not "get up" either. The VMC already has history, bringing with it the same attitudes that you now seem to dispay here?
No Jason - YOU MISSED MY POINT.
Its got nothing to do about me.
You don't even know the people who are involved. You don't even know the people who you are insulting. If you did know those people, then you wouldn't be making the statements that you are now.
I have been nothing more than an observer when it comes to what the MRA Board and is doing right now.
Yours is the arrogant attitude. What is your motive? FFS read the document. Analyse what is going on.
What goes with Netrider? Why is its attitude so arrogant. I would expect much better from you Jason. I know that you have an analytical mind and that if you were in touch with what is really going on that you wouldn't be speaking this way.....
1. Where can I find information about the VMC, how it is structured and how it intends to provide representation?
2. Does VMC have a plan for funding its existence and activities and can anyone give an overview?
3. How does VMC plan to include representation from the motorcycle industry? (if it does so)
4. Are there individuals who have publicly put up their hand to help with the setting up of this entity (VMC) and if so, who are they?
Oh, and can we get a few facts in here before launching the missiles, please?
Attend the MRA QGM. You can be there as an observer - its open to everyone. Only members get to vote on motions.
This is the only time and place where everything will pan out.
I have a prior commitment that day and will not be able to attend. Really, to make a considered decision on what I know now would be impossible anyway, so perhaps that for the best.
At present VMC doesn't seem to have a public presence. I'll make a decision based upon what, if anything, comes to light in the future.
You make the assumption that I'm not. The attitude that you have to turn up to the MRA AGM (dissolving) to find what/who the VMC is and it's plans are typifies exactly what I'm talking about!
Forget what the VMC is doing at the moment. It is only a title. Who knows what the organisation may end up being called. The bottom line is numbers, and if you read the paper, then you will realise where those numbers will come from (see MCCNSW as the model).
You'll make a decision? Not up to you I think.
There has been a lot of work gone into developing what is planned - by several here on Netrider and others.
IMHO - we need some unity. If there is no untidy - then there is no hope.
Jason already appears to believe that it is doomed to failure. In fact I think he wants it to fail.
Leave your ego at the door - so we can move on. Egos will and have destroyed everyone who has put up their hands so far....
John, you might be hamstrung and had no other choice but to make that response, but it's not very helpful.
From what I understand, VMC has two committee members and a number of club affiliations. It's probably never needed to step up beyond the initial idea / concept that birthed it, but it has the right structure, including a voice on the AMC yes? If this is indeed the right vehicle for the future, it will need to live up to and fulfill it's potential and take over the reigns of motorcycling representation (industry/retail/riders) and lobbying.
That means, that it's structure and constitution will ultimately have to be laid bare to the key stakeholders who will then decide to join up and support/fund/resource the new voice for motorcycling.
I think it's fair to say, that if it's a rebadged MRA it will fail to get any support.
Rob, and don't you think that this is what Grant and the people working with him recognise?
They are trying not to just re-badge the MRA, but to establish a representative organisation which fits with the times. The MRA was established when there were few if any clubs. It thrived in the early days, but now times are different, there are now hundreds of clubs. The plan is to form an organisation that will have delegates from all of those clubs and thus be able to say that it represents the total number of riders in that entire group.
I think you need to get involved..... I know you are one of the right people and if this is going to succeed then it needs the right leaders.
I look forward to more discussion.
Are you going to be involved with the VMC, John?
Just observing and supporting the concept...... an observer for now.
Involved? In what manner do you mean?
Jason, I know that you are not - in touch that is..........
I didn't say that you must turn up at the AGM. I said that the AGM was the best place for those interested to observe the discussion.
For MRA members, then I would hope that they will attend to make sure that their view is heard.
I have assumed that you have already decided that the concept will fail.
As I have replied to you in the past I am a volunteer in a sporting organisation that has a lot of the challenges listed in the document in the OP.
I can say that if we wound up and said 'Oh yes we're essentially asking you to register with these guys instead' the FIRST think I would be asked is 'Who are they - why should I register with them?'
If I responded the way you did to Mouth (which wasn't an insult), then what did you think was going to happen? Destroy your own ego first and start realising that what Mouth essentially is asking for is information and confidence. He has NO confidence in MRA OR VMC.
That is not his job to fix, it is the MRA's and by extensions, YOURS. You had better expect questions, and your best bet would be to have a representative of the VMC present saying in person, that yes, they have agreed to do this at the very least. And from what I have read they might want to bring a copy of their constitution as well.
The above is as impartial as I can make it John, although your typical response would likely call me biased against you somehow.
Now to insert my ego to the discussion John. Based upon what I have read here in this forum over the time I have been a member, I am going to insult you. If the mods decide I have overstepped the mark, then so be it.
John, you are an idiot. I cannot state here enough that I consider that remark to be restrained.
Should your opinion, as a result of this motion, be further removed from the public eye and to your own personal world, then Victorian motorcycling will be better off.
ok enough arguing about ball sizes
please discuss the issues only.
If I understand:
-VMC is essentially only a temporary name and the details of the organisation are to be decided at the MRA QGM and going forward, by those who choose to agree for their memberships to be transfered to VMC (or subsequently join)?
- There are several people who intend to stand for office or be involved at an organisational level. But who haven't publicly said so yet (?)
The only decision in my power is whether to support it (by membership) or not. That'll depend on a lot of things but for now I'll be optimistic and say "I hope so."