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The Anti Travel Movement

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by titus, Dec 5, 2008.

  1. This is a new one on me. Listening to radio talkback just before, I caught the tail end of a discussion with a visiting UK 'transport expert' (didn't catch who) who is pushing this idea that society as a whole needs to minimise the amount of powered travel it does - and in particular the speed it does it at.

    He mentioned discussions with local officials about a strategy of limiting all local speed limits in urban areas to 30kmh and all rural areas to 60kmh. In addition, there was some discussion about the 'Movement's ultimate goal of discouraging all non-essential travel. In other words, you would need to be engaged in an essential activity to engage in motorised transport. Freight as well as human activity would be included.

    Apparently (from what I could gather), the movement has convinced a number of local government bodies to trial the speed part in certain areas in the UK ,and he is here to do the same in Australia.

    I'd love to know if anyone caught this, who he is and who, if anyone, sponsored the visit?

  2. at 30km/hr why would anyone own a car? To me govts will lose too much money and therefore will never happen, and i doubt the general population would put up with a 30/60 speed limit.... fark just imagine that you could lose your license for doing the current speed limit on the hume :LOL: will never happen :)
  3. These are the same mouth frothing idiots who probably support the lethal injecting of the poplulation to bring the numbers down. :roll:
  4. It's all about peak oil, if they can restrict speeds to lower than what they presently are then it will become painful to travel longer distances and people will use their vehicles less and what vehicles that do exist will be able to have much smaller motors.

    There are reasons to suspect that the plateau in production that peak oil would produce would not happen and instead that what would happen would be increasingly chaotic up and down movements in the price of crude oil over shorter and shorter time spans (anyone notice a financial crisis causing and oil price crash recently?).

    Personally I'd rather see an increase in small motorbike/scooter use than restrictions on car use though :)
  5. Peak oil bollocks. This smells as it always has of the extreme right trying to impose the tools of social engineering.
  6. That is pretty much what he was implying, but I should mention that Mr Expert was mostly talking about the 'effect on local communities' and the 'building of safer behaviour'. There was some aside to environment but that and peak oil were not the main thrusts. It was about kids being able to play on the road - that kind of thing.

    To be honest, I cave seen something like this in Europe a couple of times. There were a couple of towns that had stuff like the division between road and footpath removed and cars actually travelled VERY slowly. But there was also NO actual signed speed limit. These were also very old, compact, narrow, windy medieval style streets rather than broad thoroughfares. The entire nature of the site lent itself to that kind of use. That style of city hardly exists in Australia.
  7. Peak oil isn't bollocks.

    It might not happen soon... but eventually it will happen.
  8. Find him and shoot him.
  9. fear the wrath of the speeding scooter: "news flash, another scooter rider has been spotted pointing a shotgun at other road users shortly after taking drugs and eating babies..."
  10. So you've been to Spain too...?
  11. Now let me get this straight... He was anti-travel but he was out here? I presume he walked and swam all the way from the UK then.

    And people listen to these tools... :roll:
  12. 30 km/h by rubber dinghy all the way :grin:
  13. Stopping personal transportation because of Peak oil is bollocks. Look at the electric designs now being rushed onto the market. There is more than enough ability to generate electricity - clean or not. While generating clean electricity from renewable resources may become expensive, it will never run out and there is no need to restrict travel.

    This does smack of social engineering. There has always been a strong resentment from some people at the "lower classes" ability to move freely. All the way back to the 19th century when there were complaints from the middle classes about seaside excursions by factory workers.

    The modern examples are the complaints that favourite holiday spots are over-run by schoolies or that such and such a place is full of backpackers.
  14. I wish I could find out who he was and who he was speaking for locally. The thrust of his concern was not really about resources and global warming (although some callers certainly picked that up).
    He some comments about how removing cars from communities would make them more active, friendly and safe. He commented that his research showed that people tend to stay indoors in their homes because they fear and dislike traffic when they go outside. the strategy was to make motorised travel so onerous that people would choose to stay in their local area (ie. within walking/cycling distance) rather than go somewhere else.
    Even if you agree with that sentiment, much easier to do in UK and Europe than here IMHO.

    sigh... life was so much better back in the middle ages... :roll:
  15. What was his solution for those who live an hour's drive from work?

    As Tony said, the prick had to get here somehow. I'd be willing to bet Vic's balls that he flew business as well...

    Friggin' hypocrites.
  16. I've heard similar sentiments before, mostly from the Global Warming / Peak Oil crowd.

    Oil comsumption is largely self regulating due to the price being so demand sensitive. An economic slowdown combined with winter in the northern hemisphere has pushed prices abruptly down, but they won't stay there for long. When demand (and therefore prices) rise again, people will resume their headlong rush for bikes and fuel efficient cars.

    As the value per barrel rises it becomes feasable to drill in oil fields that were previously too difficult / expensive to exploit. (short term solution, but most 'peak oil' calculations calculate only what are CURRENTLY considered to be viable oil fields) Add to this the regular discovery of more oil and combine this with the rapid emergence of alternative energy sources (long term solution) and my bet is that peak oil will not happen.

    As for this bloke travelling the world to preach the gospel of less travel... it reeks of hypocracy that would make an american TV evanglist look sincere.

    I agree that it's unlikely we'll see any state / federal government implementing such a scheme. It would be political suicide and cost them too much in lost taxes from petrol. (remember BOTH state and federal gov's apply taxes to our petrol...)

    But I wouldn't put it past some tree hugging-people hating local council to try and implement it within their own borders...
  17. I agree with the "Hypocrite" responses. He can stay at home, in his cave, if he wants to.
  18. The issue isn't the cost of drilling for oil in oil fields that were previously too expensive to exploit it is that most of the fields remaining to be utilized have costs of extraction (in energy terms) higher than the energy of the oil. That is to say it uses more than a barrel of oils worth of energy to extract a barrel of oil. That means alternative sources of energy (electricity or gas) need to be used to power the fields. That means either nuclear power or coal increasing substantially.

    Personally what I'd expect is a gradual shift towards smaller more economical vehicles, a general reduction in non-essential travel, increased use of public transport, walking, push bikes, more hybrid vehicles, the increasing use of plug in electrics for commuting and lots of small scooters and motor bikes.

    All of that is predicated on an increase on available generating capacity though... which in Oz means either we adopt nuclear power (which seems unlikely) or a significant increase in coal powered generation (which will make it harder to meet the greenhouse gas targets).

    Personally I'd rather see a few large nuclear stations and plug in electrics for commuting (err no... I'm not really a greenie I'm a business person, but I've seen the calculations that have been done around oil production and consumption and they strongly suggest peak oil is real).
  19. It has to be, doesn't it? We've been slurping the stuff for a 100 years or more now at ever increasing rates. And the reserves are finite.
  20. I'd agree on both vounts. It occured to me that the 30kmh limit is exactly what Yarra and Port Phillip councils tried to get the State government to implement last month. The minister, Tim Pallas, dismissed it out of hand at the time. It appears that they've realised there is a voter backlash to ever diminishing speed limits (although they do have a history of backflips when some interest group gets hold of their ghoulies).

    Would NOT be surprised if both those councils were behind this visit.

    BTW, I heard a report recently that most cars - even small modern ones - use approximately double the fuel (and produce double the CO2) per kilometre when their speed drops below 40kmh compared to 60. Wonder what he would have to say abbout that? (I know I know - get out and walk.)