Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Teen Carnage on Our Roads

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by Justus, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Undecided

    0 vote(s)
  1. Parents of killed teenages plead to stop the

    Paul Anderson and Anthony Dowsley
    December 12, 2007 12:00am

    PARENTS of teenagers killed in high-speed car crashes have joined
    the families of two West Gate Freeway victims to plead with young
    people to drive safely.

    The parents have rallied to stop the senseless carnage by speaking of
    their never-ending anguish.

    They have also called on the State Government to restrict the number
    of passengers P-platers are allowed to carry.

    The father of George Loizou, one of the four teens killed in Sunday's
    fiery crash, last night sent a stern message to all young drivers.

    "You are not indestructible. You are vulnerable," Andrew Loizou said.

    "You are at risk, particularly at this time of the year.

    "I don't want these boys to die for nothing.

    "We gave our kids everything, including discipline, but when they are by
    themselves they're going to make their own decisions."

    The Loizou family, along with the parents of Peter Stavrou, also 17,
    have also called for government-funded driving courses and laws to
    limit P-plate drivers to four-cylinder cars.

    Peter's father, Steve, backed the Loizou family.

    "I've lost part of myself. I've lost my happiness," he said.

    The families spoke after attending a private memorial service at a Greek
    orthodox church in Sunshine.

    The priest conducting the service was Peter Stavrou's grandfather.

    Peter and Sharon Gilhooley last night joined the call to stop the carnage.

    They lost their 16-year-old son, Jack, in a high-speed car crash in
    Viewbank in July 2001.

    The driver was a drunken P-plater who survived.

    Mr Gilhooley said the State Government had "blood on its hands" by
    refusing to restrict P-plate passenger numbers.

    Jack would have turned 23 on Thursday.

    "No one enjoys the day," Mr Gilhooley said.

    "Jack's death has totally changed our lives, and it doesn't recover after the
    funeral. You're not a normal family with normal expectations ever again.

    "At one point in time your priority might have been for your child to pass

    "Now it's a priority for them just to get home safely."

    Brian and Penny Martin lost their 17-year-old son, Josh, in the same
    Viewbank accident.

    Mrs Martin has asked the State Government for P-plate passenger
    restrictions and mandatory driving courses.

    But Acting Premier Rob Hulls was adamant yesterday.

    "We don't intend to have an overall reduction for all P-plate drivers in relation
    to the number of passengers they can take,"
    he said.

    "We believe the measures of education, driver experience and the like does
    send a very strong message that you need to get as much experience as
    you can before you get your licence."

    Mr Hulls said any death on the road was one too many.

    "My message to young people is the message that the TAC has been putting
    out for years, and that is, 'speed kills'. Drag racing is illegal."

    But Mrs Martin said she was still angry.

    "Drivers are responsible for the lives of everyone in their vehicles," she said.

    "There's only one person with their hands on the steering wheel and their
    foot on the pedal."

    The Martin family grieve six years after Josh's death.

    "You know your child's last moments would have been full of fear," Mrs Martin
    said. "It's a horrible thing to live with."

    David and Debra French lost their son Riley, 18, in country Victoria in
    October last year when his P-plate mate rolled a car at high speed.

    Mrs French has demanded tougher jail penalties for culpable driving to
    deter dangerous drivers.

    Her son's killer was sentenced to a mere four years' jail with a minimum
    of two.

    "Just think about your family and not yourselves all the time,"
    she urged
    young drivers.

    "Don't consider getting into a car with anyone who's been drinking alcohol."

    Of her life now, she said: "It's hell. I still go to the cemetery twice a day
    and cry."

    Ken and Jenny Graham are also grieving parents.

    Their son Kane, 17, died instantly when his driver careered into a tree
    in Mt Eliza in December 2004.

    It would have been Kane's birthday on Thursday.

    Mrs Graham sent a warning to young passengers.

    "Don't get in a car if you feel slightly unsafe," she said.

    Two others died on Victoria's roads yesterday.

    A motorcyclist died in an accident on the Princes Highway about 6.15pm in
    Eumemmerring and a woman in her mid-30s died yesterday after a car
    crash in Dunolly, near Bendigo, about 7.30pm. This year's road toll is now

    Grief: Cleri and Steve Stavrou with Doris and Andrew Loizou lost their
    sons, Peter and George.

    Picture: Ellen Smith

  2. You're always going to have teenagers wanting to do stupid things like go really fast. No law is ever going to change that fact, the only thing that would stand a chance would be an improved licencing system that stops such people getting behind the wheel in the first place.
    If you make the restrictions on p-plate drivers tougher it'll just encourage more of them to go out and buy bikes instead, increasing the road toll for motorcyclists, and making life more difficult for all of us (higher insurance costs, more negative media attention, more attention from Police/Government etc.).
  3. A few years ago I lost a mate to a car accident. Poor bugger got decapitated taking a corner too quickly - but still under the sped limit. He had one friend in the car and it was an old shitebox. It happened in the early evening.

    My point is the bloke, who was a bit of a wally and drove like one, would still have killed himself and badly injured his mate with all the restrictions we have in NSW.

    Kids no longer have to take responsibility for anything in their life - I was one of them. I wasn't trusted to run in the street, feed myself, clothtake responsibility for so much as a lawnmower. Then, when i turned 18 I got the keys to a V6 car. No wonder so many guys in my situation get killed.

    Then again... this shit has always happened and always will. No amount of legislation can prevent stupidity and rampant male hormones.

    That was a bit of a ramble, sorry.
  4. agree, there are in laws in place, that there own kids wouldn't follow, why do they think other people's kids will.

    People forget driving is a dangerous activity not a given safe right, which is what everyone is trying to turn it into.
  5. Wouldn't one car of P platers be better than four cars with one P-plater each? I'd rather they be talking in the car than racing each other, which young blokes tend to do!

    Government can put as many restrictions in place as they like, but nothings going to change until the start making driving courses compulsory. You have to go for more training on a forklift than you do to operate a motor vehicle at high speeds :roll:
  6. The facts are unclear. How many times do you recall hearing of a family car or those driven under normal circumstances coming off the road and colliding with tress etc.... Quite a few recently.
    As far as street racing, this goes on all the time. And I would be interested to know if there is any real statistical deviation of these events from normal fatalities.

    I suggest from a quick review of RTA and Vic Road stats (available online), that street racing fatality injuries carry no more risk than other category of accidents.

    Happy to see the regression plots that differ.
  7. Sorry to go slightly further OT, but thankyou for referring to it as what it is, Street Racing. Drag racing is NOT illegal, and is a perfectly legitimate sport.

    What these morons do is unsafe, dangerous and just plain stupid.
  8. It is simple: Teach them HOW to drive NOT how to pass their Licence test
  9. Too hard Buggarr.

    Most people just don't have the right mentality for it, unfortunately.
  10. You can get some responsible P Platers and some who you should say "No I am not going to get in the car with you"

    I do not believe that restricting the number of passengers will stop these accidents. We need something like a compulsory advanced driving course so people can understand what their cars can do / what they shouldn't do, and some better handling skills

    but it would be better to go with deathsminion idea of teaching them how to drive
  11. Then they shouldn't be on the roads if that is the case
  12. hahahah bugarr what do you think the whole point of high school is? solely to pass exams!
  13. A Wire Rope Barrier may have prevented the 4 deaths on the freeway on Sunday.

    Whilst a lot of us here whinge and moan about them, if they are used correctly they can save far more lives than they take.

    Where this fateful crashed occurred, there is a very short stretch of trees between the Williamstown Road and Millers Road exit. The skid marks go from the far right lane, across 4 lanes and into the trees. No breaks in the skid marks, therefore the vehicle didn't have ABS.

    What compels these young folk to simply stand and stay on the brake peddle instead of releasing and reapplying??


    Unfortunately, as stated already, they are taught to pass a test, not to drive to survive.

    The thought of that crash just mortifies me. Hope the victims went really quickly.

  14. Also Vic, if no ones ever taught you then it would seem logical that the harder you press the pedal, the more it stops. Which of course people who know how to drive know this is not the case. Again, training. I just dont get it, can the govt not be stuffed? Too hard, to expensive?? Other countries seem capable?
  15. So the car skidded across 4 lanes on a streight piece of road and still had the velocity to kill all aboard?

    Could/would WRBs have saved them? maybe. Should they be there to handle a situation that simply should not have occured, and potentially endanger other people who are moving within "sensible" limits with the skill to handle there vehicle?

    As a teen I was a hoon, I have had cars sideways at many an occasion, and because of the skills I built up have actually saved my life and the life of my passenger when someone tried to run me off the road. I pushed the limits of my own ability and that of my vehicle (OK So the limits of a 1980 Gemini arn't anything particularly wild) and Never was I that out of control or unable to recover the situation that I could have even imagined sliding 4 lanes with the breaks locked and off the road.

    Whoever was at the wheel of that car was driving well outside there ability.
    Training and education may have A) increased there skill level 8) increased there awarness of the deficiencies in there skill level.
  16. Depends what the course covers. There have been some studies suggesting that advanced driver training can actually make things worse - since it can make drivers even more over-confident. Teaching someone to correct a loss of control on a skidpan for example can make some drivers unafraid of losing control on the road, with the result being they actually drive more recklessly. Unfortunately for those sort of people it usually takes a loss of control combined with hitting something solid for them to learn.
  17. I am a grumpy old man... 34...

    All the restrictions in the world, can not change to one thing that is the root cause of all of these crashes... attitude...

    In a similar way to how we are now taught how to stay alive on a bike, it has nothing much to do with skill level, and everything to do do with frame of mind, and attention to the job at hand...

    I don't know how we get through the thick skulls of young drivers that driving like an idiot isn't cool, that the outcomes are tragic, and that driving isn't supposed to be a game, but THAT is the only thing that will stop all of this mayhem...

    I've been involved with motorsport since I was about 8, and not long after I started to drive (like an idiot of course), I became very involved with motorsport... that was when I realised that the people who can drive think that street racers, and general hoons are hopeless and a big joke...

    Unfortunately, those people aren't really the peers, who the young drivers are hoping to impress...

    My 2c,

  18. Insert Difinative Post

    most of the time even the most "hoon" P plater drives pretty normally, the problem is when you get a bunch of young guys together in a car the driver will always be trying to impress them/ give into peer pressure.

    The fact is though if u take away the P platers right to carry passerngers or after 10pm or something...then you've got no dessignated drivers which will cause alot more people to drive home drunk

    and if u stop P platers driving at night all together how does little Jimmy get to work the night shift when trains stop at 12? and busses earlier.

    Im not a P plater....but i cant see any reasonable extra restrictions that wouldnt cause more problems/undue hardship

    vote: No
  19. I know you're just presenting this as an alternative point of view, so I'm not attacking you here, jd :)

    But whenever I hear someone make this argument against better training, I usually say "Well try it and prove me wrong. Coz so far, special speed limits , longer provisional licenses, and vehicle restrictions haven't really done much to solve this huge problem you're presenting."

    The rest of the population can do what they like, I'd be teaching my kids to drive, control and correct in as many situations, on as many surfaces, and in as extreme weather conditions as I can find while I'm there to teach them how to manage them all safely.

    Everyone else can piss and moan about the government's negligence AFTER their kids are dead, if they want.
  20. But the counter-argument to that is while it may make people more over-confident and more likely to speed, or chuck it sideways round corners etc. which they would have been likely to do anyway, at least now they can do it safely and know how to do a proper emergency stop.