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Take time to sum up other riders

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by raven, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. Too many riders don't allow themselves enough time to 'sum up the opposition', and will often get themselves in over their head.

    2 cases in point...

    approaching a set of S's that i know pretty well, at speed...my plan is to hit the 45's at about 100 and work it up from there.
    Other bike approaches from behind me at much higher speed but mis-times his overtake...goes racing past me, nearly loses it on the first LHander, after realizing he is way too hot...after a surely brown pants moment, he gets back on it and glances in his rear vision mirror to see me large as life right on his arse (since I did'nt slow up).
    Obviously that surprised him, as he hits the gas hard to stay in front, and then completely overcooks it into the next corner.
    We went that way through 4 x 45k S's...me taking my line and relatively cruising while he gassed it up, slammed on the brakes, nearly lost it and then back on the gas again throughout that section....all in an effort to stay in front of me, having just barged his way through at the last minute, believing he would leave me behind. (not!)

    Second occasion is where a rider raced up my arse just before a different set of 45k corners which I planned to take at pretty high speed...I did'nt want him to hold me up, so I picked up speed on the approach and once he'd caught me, he then dropped in behind since the corner was now coming up fast.

    I hit the corner at my pace, and he dropped in to follow me, only to realize that I was travelling alot faster than what he thought he could handle...he was gone by the time we came out of the second corner and I figured he'd come off...but then I spotted him way back travelling a tad slower than before.... He then blew past me once we were out of the tighter twisties and I'd slowed back down to a more sedate pace.

    In both these cases, the riders underestimated both my ability, and intended actions, and it caught them out.

    So...if you find yourself coming up on what 'appears' to be a rider, riding slower than you...and unless it's an obvious situation, take the time to sus out what they are up to...many experienced riders WILL NOT slow down for corners, and this can either suck you in over your head or catch you seriously off guard.
    Hang for a few corners and see what the lay of the land is, before you make a move....Your heart will appreciate it - so might your body. :grin:


    EDIT** And don't worry...I'm not Mr Perfect either...Plenty of times over the years "I've" been the goose, overcooking corners to keep up or stay ahead of another rider. :oops: :oops: :roll:
  2. Dually noted. I think if more riders thought before giving their mechanical penises a twist, there would be significantly less problems...
  3. thats going to be a huge problem this year with certain roads now able to be ridden at speed limit without braking, and new riders/or riders that don't know the area finding themselves on entry to corners at a much quicker pace purely because the bike in front might not brake.... but hey lest you will be crashing 20km/hr slower :roll:
  4. I'd add to that John to include people you're riding with in a group. Listen to the way they represent themselves and the way others talk about them, and start working out how to pick a fast guy, a reckless guy, a showoff, a person who's likely to get upset by certain behaviours, a technician, a guy who talks a better game than he rides, a poser, a straight-line hero...

    Bear those things in mind when you're thinking about riding with people.
  5. How many boxes you ticked Loz??? :rofl:

    Hope you're well!

  6. Pride can really get ya.

    The biggest one I find is that if someone out brakes you into a corner, and by a LOT, don't use them as a braking marker into the next corner. If I don't have the inside line and some nitwit has waited until I've started braking I just sit back and watch them sail off onto the dirt. All well and good on a track, not so good on the road.
  7. The hooligan who is going to have his front wheel in the air at every opportunity
  8. So you know Loz? :LOL:
  9. Yeah...quite right Loz...sus things out a bit on group rides etc...you can get an idea of where you fit in. After an hours riding you'll begin to see where the *real* lines are drawn, and where you more realistically fit with the group.

    And don't forget that a rider who might have been tootling along early on, can up his pace dramatically later, perhaps because he's starting to feel better or more comfortable within the group. It's a fluid and dynamic environment - one where you need to be accessing things periodically, and be willing to adjust your own apparant position within it.

    Simple eh... :shock: :wink:

  10. Hey John,

    Great tip, thanks for the advice mate. I actually really enjoy reading a lot of your comments. I learn a lot from them.

    I can relate a similar story, a few weeks ago we did the Putty Road ride, I was riding 2nd bike or 3rd the whole way. As it was my first ride through what you would consider proper twisties I thought it would be a good idea to follow the line and the braking of the bike in front of me. Not such a good idea. The more experienced riders infront of me could brake later, take a faster and sharper line and accelerate out sooner than I could or was comfortable doing. Noting this I started riding my own pace through the twisties till I got more comfortable.

    What I did notice was how quick the learning curve was. After the first hour on the bike I noticed myself starting to get a lot more confident through the turns and could start trying to follow the lines taken by the lead riders.

    Good post thanks.

  11. Usually, by the time I've summed up a rider... they've pretty much disappeared off into the distance. :p

    I think that works pretty well for both of us.
  12. Don't worry mate...sometimes you can catch up to them quite easily in the end....
    (it takes time to drag a bike outa the bushes).. :LOL: :LOL:

  13. Just to add further comments to the thread...beware of ones own Adrenalin...(and this is where the experienced rider has a better chance)

    It's fairly easy for your own adrenalin to drive you beyond your own limits...ie...you find a fellow rider in the group that is fairly well matched to your own, and really, it's fantastic to be scooting along briskly, hanging it through corners with another rider who matches your pace. Very rewarding! :grin:

    However...while you are doing this...a bit of adrenalin creeps in...he goes a bit quicker...you go a bit quicker, he goes a bit quicker again....suddenly...you are both past it, and the two of you are now in trouble...it's a natural reaction, especially among blokes because we tend to be "competative", and especially for newer riders because they are 'not' able to recognise the signs :)
    It's where that "ride your own ride" stuff becomes sooo important. It's hard to ride your own ride when you are getting it on with a bike 2-3mtrs ahead of or behind you in the twisities, because they are quite a distraction due to their proximity. Ridng in close quarters through twisties is an aquired skill that takes a fair amount of time to master, because while doing it, you have to fight the adrenalin rush, emotional excitement, tostesterone, and competative spirit, all at the same time....and they can be difficult to overcome....
    Just be mindful and aware of it...There's no points for being the first one to the ambulance, when all you had to do was knock it back, juuuust a smidge.


  14. thats me right there.... not on public roads though [-X :angel: :demon:
  15. Good topic John. :)

    Timely reminder.
  16. Probably the most important advice. It's so easy to get caught up in the whole thing. The adrenaline, as you mentioned, but also you can get complacent and think "oh yeah, this guy rides as fast as me".
    I once followed a guy for a few Ks and he was riding at a very similar pace to what I usually do. On one particular corner that I tend to take a little slower (bumpy), I suddenly found myself following this guy, at his speed and entered it at what was clearly a speed that was too fast for me. Nearly ruined my day... :shock:
    Lesson learnt.
  17. I should add, this goes for using sportscars for braking cues and cornering-speed cues.

    Snide "Lol cager" and "Lol ferrari-owning poser" comments aside, sportscars tackle twisty roads differently to bikes; with an enthusiastic driver they can potentially brake later, harder and also carry more speed through the corner.

    To make matters worse, many modern (and not-so-modern) sportscars and performance cars can out-power-to-weight-ratio LAMS-legal bikes, so making up the difference on the straight isn't always a given either...
  18. following a Harley into some min-twisties over the weekend (Mornington park) taught me a few things...

    just because you 'know' a set of corners in one direction doesn't mean you know them in the reverse. Especially if they are now downhill...

    'target fixation' is an aiming device for brown trousers. Eyes sometimes need to be dragged sharply to the right direction like errant puppies... more anticipation and planning there...

    Harleys can corner.

    :grin: :grin:

    ...in the right hands...
  19. Your point is not lost on me, Stewy...I see the dangers with this scenario also, mate. It's a "ride your own ride" set of circumstances... that is likely to catch a few out... :(

  20. Good post as always big fella. I had a similar situation recently. :grin: