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Take it easy on the Monash

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Donuts, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. http://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/more-news/2378-no-excuses-hits-the-wall.html

    Sounds like one of the 80 zones has been reduced to a 60 (or there's a 60 zone closer to the city - not sure, I get off before that), and there's police there too 8-[ . Looks like one of us already lost our bike for a bit so just a heads up for the rest of you who aren't used to seeing our friends along there :angel:

  2. are there actually road workers doing things at 915 and 1015 at night? Or is that the one hour they can be observed to do some work?
  3. Suffer I say.

    Hope they do more of it. Get these pricks that disobey the reduced limits whilst people are working on the roads off the road for a long time.

    For 2 years I've been petrified going home after the Hospital as the reduced limit is almost always ignored by almost every prick in charge of a vehicle. The limnit drops to 40 when there are workers on the road and these dumb shits are still barreling through at 100. Morons!!
    Time and place for everything, speeding through a work zone is not one of those times or places.

    It's dangerous, very ****en dangerous when the speed differential is around 40km/h. I swear people leave their brains in Hibernate mode for too long.
  4. I somewhat agree vic... My issue with the road work zones along a lot of the Monash is that they leave a lot of spots as 60 / 80 when there is no longer any work going on there (I don't mean no workers around - I mean no work gear or anything either, for months). If there was some sort of logic to the limits, I think people would be more inclined to follow them. For example, there are perfectly surfaced stretches with emergency lanes intact and markings done that are 80, yet in spots along the 100 km/h section there is no left-hand emergency lane?

    That being said, speed enforcement along the areas where there are actually workers exposed to the traffic (not behind the giant concrete barriers they use most of the way along) is good and makes sense (not as much sense as harsher penalties for the idiots who do cause fatalities instead of just bulk taxing everyone)... But 40/60 zones where they are behind these barriers is just ridiculous, in my opinion.
  5. Ha...Adam West..
  6. I ride the Monash most weekday mornings around 1am, and YES they are doing roadworks, and YES plod is out there.... Somebody has to nab the nuffs who believe that 4 wheels has right of way when 4 lanes become 1.

    p.s. it has also cost me a rear tyre, and a tube, and a 4km push/ride after being directed onto to the shoulder and picking up a roofing screw.
  7. Plus eleventy billion.

    People speed through road work areas because there is very rarely anyone actually working there or at risk, and signs and barriers are left in place for months at a time. The Westgate had two lanes closed from the West side to the East side last night, with the speed limit on the bridge at 60 Km/h, then 40 Km/h for the last third, and yet there were no workers until well over the bridge on the East side. They could easily have left the whole bridge as four lanes, and closed two on the East side. There was plenty of time and distance to do so safely.

    So yes, don't speed passed road workers as it is not safe, and they deserve to be able to go home after their shift, not to hospital some time during it. But how do you really know when there are worker out and at risk? Road work limits and signage are becoming way too conservative, and therefore drivers are becoming complacent. It is perfectly understandable, and a perfect opportunity for the state to pull in some tax dollars from relatively innocent people.

    Ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?
  8. There are traffic signage / traffic control guides produced by each state road authority which are generally all similar. There is a lot of logic behind those guides. However, they are not always implemented as they should be and the public usually notices this and jumps up and down and complains when this happens. Sometimes traffic controller think they know better and make their own changes to the plan. It is illegal and most of the time their changes aren't better.

    There were always people speeding by on the Gateway Motorway when roadworks were going on during the day and night. It is happening right now as I type as well.

    It is better to have traffic going along like sheep well before they have any distractions or opportunities to rubberneck and better to have them slowing down uphill rather than downhill. If you're going to be working in different areas during the night then it is usually best if you set up the closure to cater for all of the work areas rather than try and set up and move. If there is a big gap between the areas then you have to set up before you move. Traffic control plans won't get signed off to allow a really long length of closure for two widely spaced work sites.

    Nothing annoys road workers more than people speeding by their work area. If you speed by them, you deserve a fine. I used to get fed up with the abuse by some motorists (it is a smaller percentage) for closing a lane so that I could do my part of the work required so that a widening could be constructed and they get an extra lane further down the track.

    What would you do in this situation? You're driving along faster than the posted roadworks speed limit and all of a sudden a massive stream of water drops on the road. As a result, you aquaplane because you were going 80 (because you deem that nobody is working or is nearby) instead of 40. You spear off into the work area, hit a worker and kill them instantly. It happened on the M1 upgrade in the late 1990s. The police determine you were going a lot faster than the posted limit so insurance wipes their hands clean of you. Now that $10M personal liability insurance that you had is no longer there. You're set for a court trial some time within the next 12 months and are going to find it near impossible to prove that it would have happened anyway had you been going 40. Just like the person you killed, you have a family as well. Someone is dead so someone has to pay. What will you do now?

    Rod, there have been instances where a reviewer placed excessive demands / changes on my traffic control plans (you couldn't physically place all the signage in the distance you're "meant" to but he still demanded the impossible) in the past so I agree with the way too conservative statement.... in some instances. Fair is fair but the ultra conservative "think of the children" types are winning with legislating their proposals which will eventually make it faster to go by foot.
  9. I just dropped a few things off at Walkalong to be repaired and came home via the Eastern.

    I encountered some road work signs just after the Chandler marked at 80km/h so I slowed down, as did the unmarked copcar beside me, a bike flew past at around 100km/h no dramas there. The signs then changed to 60km/h until the end of the fwy as it goes under Hoddle street.

    There was no worker, no machinery, nothing at all.

    Now you have a situation where people go "**** it I'm going back to 100km/h and the others that think, "I'm almost at the end, I'll sit at 60km/h"

    Again, you have a pretty large speed differential which is way dangerous.
    So I guess all weekend there will be confused drivers navigating the Eastern.
    Way to go :roll:
  10. Did someone forget to take down the signs or is there some change/difference to normal somewhere there? Not taking down signs should be an action that someone gets fined for. It is actually illegal to leave them up. Its this sort of thing that irritates the public.
  11. Wouldnt surprise me if they kept it 80 when its complete.
  12. I wrote a long response Tony, but my PC ate it before I posted.

    Bottom line: In Victoria we have long been conditioned to road work signs going up early and staying up much longer than required, with no work being done and no workers being at risk, so some people take liberties. I try not to, but I am sometimes surprised by a completely unexpected and inappropriate roadworks speed limit. Slowing to 40 from 80 or 100 for long distances with no one around is just not acceptable. I suffered such things on the Ringroad for a long time. The practice of putting up signs, then leaving them there, seems to be a conscious effort to provide the state with revenue from fines. The Police seem well informed as to when and where they should focus efforts to catch people. They don't seem very interested in safety.

    In your scenario, the road should have been closed, or there should have been lollypop men controlling traffic, if there was a risk of a sudden massive stream of water dropping on the road. That was either a failure of the traffic control plan, or an unforseeable tragedy. Did a pipe burst, or was the water dropped by a truck?

    I know it is a difficult situation to manage, but I suspect that the cost savings of just whacking up signs and leaving them there for extended periods outweigh the inconvenience to drivers in the minds of those who set up the traffic control plans. I trust that you aren't one of those who do that, but commercial realities come ahead of inconveniencing someone else for most companies. They do not in the minds of drivers who put up with inappropriate signage regularly. There needs to be some oversight, measurement and consequences for unreasonably inconveniencing road users.
  13. I definitely agree there. I recall on the Western Ringroad last year speed restrictions that had me completely miffed. They were there either to raise revenue (quite likely) or due to laziness of those who put out (and were meant to take down) the signs. The semi-permanent 80s I could understand but there was no justification for the 40 zones during the weekend when nobody was working where I remember them. One which comes to mind was at a new overpass. The far left lane out of three was closed so to me, that should have been an 80 zone at that time, not 40. I suspect that only laziness resulted in those signs staying out there. I only drove it a few times and there were so many 60-80-100-80-60-40-80-100-80-100 changes in a short stretch that it wasn't funny and was downright stupid. You'd just get back up to 100 then you were faced with slowing down to 80. If I recall correctly, there were some permanent speed cameras in the mix as well. If I had to drive that each day, I'd have gone crazy.

    A water cart somehow dropped its load. I can't remember what failed on it. It was one of those things that don't normally happen nor would you expect to happen.

    It really depends on the contractor and the allowance they make for traffic control. Historically on the larger jobs, a lot used to put in an arbitrary figure/budget only to find out they should have made it 2 or 3 times as much. Some do it right. Fortunately, the budget is/was right where I work/worked so I got to do things properly. I do a check before and after the package of work to ensure things aren't left out. It really does come down to money like you pointed out.
  14. A tip for anyone who gets busted going through roadworks on the weekend or when nobody is scheduled to be working (i.e. 40 or 60 signs quite obviously left out when they shouldn't have been), ask for a copy of the signed off traffic control plan. It states what time(s) it is applicable so if there's no work going on and the signs shouldn't have been up, you won't be fined if you contest it. They are legal documents and have to be kept for (I think it is) 7 years after the completion of the work so you should be able to source it.

    One thing about what Vic writes is right.... speed differentials make it hairy!
  15. I've been on the receiving end of trying to slow trafic down. As a member of the SES there are times that for reasons of crashes etc that we will have to close down a lane so we can cary out the required work and even though the whitches hats, speed signs and LED flares are deployed and even members using lolypops we still get idiots sceaming past at 100+ only a couple of metres away.
    So with that in mind I am very wary of roadwork speed limits but when they are used for no apparent reason on the Monash gets right up my nose.
    On the west bound side of the Monash at the clyde berwick rd on ramp there was some major work going on and so the speed was reduced to 80, fair enough, but as soon as no one was working there, even with the concrete barriers still in place, the speed limit returned to 100 almost immediatley however about another 5 - 7k's down the road same concrete barriers no signs of any roadwork 4 newly surfaced lanes plus 2 emergency lanes all as smooth as a race track all marked and surprise surprise 80k limit.
  16. Where would one obtain said docuements?