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Tailgating Fools

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Bravus, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Saw at least 4 bikes - all of them 250s as it happens, which may be causal - sitting 2m off the back of cages at 110 on the way up the M1 this morning. One happily sat in my blind spot (I was caging it) in the same lane for quite a while...

    2 seconds would be good, 3 seconds better. At 110, which is just over 30 m/s, 2 metres is 1/15th of a second, or about 0.07 s.

    That's how much time these guys had to react... and given that MotoGP riders have reaction times around 0.1 s... these guys have zero chance of doing anything useful if something unexpected happens.

    I know, there'll be plenty of people who say it's their choice, and it is.

    It's just a spectacularly stupid choice.
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Maybe it was Stoner, Rossi and Spies.Their 0.1 reaction meant they were safe.
    In case you dont know-if your riding next to a car,300mm behind them,they cant cut you off-blind spot has nothing to do with it.
  3. Some people do ride much too close. Some other people do obsess over it. As I rot slowly toward my 50th, it starts to concern me more.

    If you're a drag racer or gunfighter or a speed-freak, you maybe have reactions at 0.3 ~ 0.5. Most people's typical reaction time to something they weren't expecting, not sitting with their finger trembling over a scientist's button, is about 1.5 seconds. That does include people who were picking their nose or buttering their toast, but also a lot of people who were just riding and driving normally.

    100 km/h = 28m/s. Think about it.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Yes it is silly, I'm always trying to be aware of how far I am from the car in front of me.

    But speaking from the opposite perspective, I've had arseholes in cars right up my arse, at at least 110km/h whilst I am in the far right lane, overtaking and leaving sufficient room in front. And im talking less than two meters behind me, close to ONE meter. If i were in a car I probably wouldn't care, and even if I did I would probably slow down just too piss those deadly motherf*ckers off (seriously makes my blood boil when on the bike). Of course I move over as soon as I have room and let them go, rather than risk them killing me.

    As they pass I am ever so tempted to raise my hand and give them the biggest 'f*** you', but I don't, fearful that these inconsiderate arseholes would be offended (as intended) but then proceed to attempt to turn into and kill me.

    Sorry if its a little off topic, I needed to vent that.
  5. Amen to that
  6. Its one of my great hates of my daily commute, which is usually in the car rather than the bike. I drive along a road which is notorious for its rearenders, particularly in a certain spot. Probably one day in 3 or 4 I have someone tailgating me very close, so I have to expand my braking distance in front and brake for them as well. This morning it was a raised 4WD on heavy duty tall offroad tyres - I shudder to think how affected its maximum braking capacity would be. I have seen a huge number of single and multicar pileups over the many years I have commuted here, included some really ugly ones. All avoidable with some basic driving sense. And the bikes are often no better.

    The logic is simple - if you sit close and the car in front brakes hard, even with very good reactions, you won't even have started braking by the time you hit.

    Definitely a stupid choice. And one that affects others.
  7. Theres no such thing as a blind spot. Move your mirrors/head.

    Unlike cars, you dont need to stop if you are tailgating, you just flick and start splitting. Unlike a car you can be watching what is going on rather than texting, a car brakes because the car in front of them brakes, you have plenty of time to do the flick.
  8. ...er, yes. That's the plan, anyway.

    It's always good to have more than one option. It's always good to have a primary and a 1st contingency, and a 2nd ... What if?
  9. You're not going to be able to flick in time if you're tailgating a car, someone cuts them off, and they slam on the brakes.
  10. I think that a rider tailgating but ready to split is still safer han some cager who is looking at the rider worrying about their riding rather than paying attention to the car in front of them.

    But then again those motorcyclists are the dangerous ones, everyone knows that, i saw it on TV.

    How about people pay attention to traffic around them and their own driving/riding rather than everyone else, but thats not thape Australian way is it?
  11. A good rider would see the car that was going to cut the car in front of them off.

    Vehicles dont materialise out of thin air (except in TAC ads).
  12. Maybe. I take your point. But a cager focussed on one rider may not notice the other rider behind, or the 7 or 8 behind him.

    The issue of what propaganda the feral garment or the state garment is pushing at this time is a good and important one. Just because they're full of sh1t doesn't mean we can do what we want with moral superiority. We have an obligation to try and stay alive. That means we can ignore a lot of what the garment says because they're full of it, but we should be aware of what the real risks and dangers are.

    When we throw a leg over, we accept responsibility for our own safety. I am safe because I make good decisions and act on them. I'd like it if every other road user obeyed the rules and did the responsible, predictable thing, but some of them don't. My safety is (as much as I can manage) in my hands, not theirs.

    There will be moments, as a road rider, when your safety and your life are completely at the mercy of some other road user, and you can not completely avoid those moments. Your job as a safer rider, is to try and spot those moments and avoid them as much as you can. It's not possible to avoid all of them, and being over cautious and too tentative and slow doesn't make you safer, it's actually more dangerous. You can't avoid those moments, but you can ameliorate them and avoid them as much as possible.

    We are moving from being a species of risk managers to a species of risk avoiders. Motorcyclists are a hold-out group. (Perhaps that's why they don't like us.) We don't crawl 1,000 miles over broken glass to avoid the slightest risk. We scan for, identify and evaluate, we analyse and make decisions, and we execute on those decisions. We take responsibility for our own actions, safety, decision making machinery, and lives. We think for ourselves. Big brother doesn't like that.
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Its up to the driver to pay attention, a rider cannot and should not adjust their riding to stop others not paying attention.

    The other thing with tailgating is that you are less likely to be hit by a lane swapper, because cars might not see you but they will see the car that you are tailgating and wont go in the "tailgating zone" hence tailgating is safer in that way.
  14. When I said 'blind spot', I don't mean I didn't know he was there, I did. But he was *not* to the side of me, he was directly behind the car, on the bumper, well to the right. Yes, in position to flick to the right, maybe, if something expected happened. But a random rock coming under the car that he can't see until 0.07 s before he hits it, for example? Not a chance in hell.

    I don't even *own* a TV, and I'm not in Victoria, so I have NFI what the TAC says and don't care at all. I do study and teach physics, though...
  15. ...and ride.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. I must admit i am guilty, not of tailgating, but close enough.
    i probably am closer than what i would feel comfortable with if i was in front.

    BUT remember 2 of my (less than 10) 'emergency' stops have been because i was behind a car a bit too close.

    Tailgating WILL eventually catch you out.

    Remember reaction times shouldn't be based on something that you are expecting, like a start gun. You will be riding along minding your own business and then it happens when you least expect it BANG. You may not even be looking in the right direction, you have to see it, decide on a response, and execute your response within about 1-2 seconds (less with the tailgating)
  17. You probably won't have time, or even a gap. See the points on reaction time above. Applies exactly the same to turning as braking. And it assumes the gap is still there which it often is not. As I saw just a few days ago when a car braked hard and moved right to avoid a possible collision in front and to its left a bit, and almost hit the car to its right - a common avoidance approach. A bike sitting on its right rear (as some do) would have had nowhere to split to, whacked the rear and ended up under someones wheels. in heavy traffic at speed. Ugly.

    It just doesn't make sense to justify a dangerous proximity with the belief that you might have a potential exit. i would never teach that to my son when he starts driving/riding this year. And i am no wuss - i've rubbed panels on the circuit and scraped my way around the Snowys for many years, but riding in traffic requires a completely different mindset.

    And i hate picking people off the road. Such a waste of a good bike........ :)

  18. I have never hit a car from behind and i tailgate all the time, except on the vt (as you cant lane split).

    Look you worry about how you ride and i will worry about myself. You busybodies worrying about everyone ekse is what the nanny state feeds off.
  19. ^ smells like troll.
    You talk some utter crap mate
  20. Nerdrider strikes again.

    Obey the law that will keep you safe, lol.
    • Like Like x 1