Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Tackling Speed Limit/Law Changes

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by joetdm, Jun 8, 2010.

  1. We seem to be in a period with speed limit changes occuring often in many places around Aus.

    Many jump up and down after it's been done but really don't do anything except complain about losing their fun, b&itch about it all and calling the plod and all involved names, etc.
    Like all that really helps!

    Groups like MRAV always ask that we come and put or cases forward but most don't for various reasons. (not pointing finger as some of us can't, don't believe we can make a difference, etc)

    How do we change the process they use of changing the limits/road rules replacing the current system that seems to let authorities do as they please without comprehensive consultation with every part of the road community.
    And sometimes change stretches of road well beyond what would be sufficient.

    First think I'd like to see made law, is a public notification in newpapers of an up coming change rather than just rolling up one day to a suprised speed limit change. Notifications should be in state newspapers and not just locally when it involved major stretches of roads like RNP, Spurs, GOR, etc.
    Similar to notices of develpment sites.
    Not sure if this happens but I don't recall seeing anything in regards to the speed changes on the Spurs in vic.

    This would give groups and public time to analyze evidence that was put forward for the changes and give everyone opportunity to put alternative cases forward.

    Other ideas??
    Then more importantly, best way to action it?
  2. In some cases I think the agenda is to secretly to get people to stay away. In some places they target motorcyclists for this treatment. We are not a large voting bloc, we are not united and we are not popular with the wider community.
    If we want to get change, we need to join other groups with similar wishes to get things happening. You need to look at other groups who also use the roads and work out a strategy that benefits each. Organised car clubs (not hoon forums), transport companies and local industries that need good transport, certain tourist businesses, etc. In some cases local residents, but be careful about them.
    Government listens to people with money. We are not going to be able to do much by ourselves.
  3. as stated above you really need to join forces with similarly minded individuals not hoons but proper car clubs to get mass numbers behind.

    I reckon a massive gathering would get some attention to the issue.
  4. We need a starting point and a leader. imo
  5. I think the problem is two fold....
    We cater to the lowest common denominator... the idiot.
    We're also becoming a "bubble wrap" society... if its dangerous, then wrap it in bubble wrap (trampolines are a prime example)

    As a result everything becomes ridiculously safe, at the cost of common sense. In some cases at the detriment of what it was there for in the first place. e.g. ring roads to avoid built up areas, having speed restricted to 60km.

    As for stopping the insanity, or reversing it... you may be too late. This problem probably started 30 years ago and we're just feeling the effects now. Huge cultural change required. (and less "PC" stuff)
  6. In a previous thread I wrote that if enough people (ala Bicycle Victoria) get together as a group things happen.
    But they need to be organised, loud, professional and not scared to take a fight up to the Govt.

    As far as speed zones. A targeted campaign, aimed at the local chambers of conmmerce / local govt, saying:
    "Blame the Govt, but you know the average $$? we (insert numbers) of motorcyclists spend each weekend, on fuel, food etc? Well, your town, (name) just lost it."
  7. The problem with speed limits inparticular is the governments propaganda about "Speed Kills" has brainwashed to many people.

    The only way to stop speed limits from being lowered is to not only provide absolute proof the Govt's publicity is wrong, but you need to provide a viable/plausible alternative(s) to reduce the road toll. Then you need to flood the media with this information.
  8. I had assumed that there was some sort of guidelines used by VicRoads or whoever which meant that when you plugged in the data for a particular road it gave an appropriate answer as to what limit it should have. (I assumed something similar to the recent description in another thread as to how advisory speed signs on corners were worked out).

    But have to admit that of late I am seeing more and more of the roads having their speed limits reduced, so I now assume it is just some arbitary decision.

    Does anyone know if there is some sort of magic formula they use for working out the speed limit?
  9. VicRoads use PC software called VLimits to assist with setting speed limits.

    I can't find any further information on VLimits.

    A request to VicRoads might result in some detailed informataion about how speed limits are set.

    There's lots of information and research about speed limits out there...

    At the risk of getting bagged for posting from Wikipedia...

    The references section is useful.
  10.  Top
  11. I agree that the above method is the way.

    Start off with one area. Use it as a learning point then build upon it by taking the campaign to other areas. Step by step.
  12. i want to start a clandestine liberation front that runs stealth bikes with riders dressed as ninjas.
    we"ll operate under the cover of darkness, recon and sorties etc... and pretty much put speed cameras out of action with explosive devices and such.
    i'm still working on the name... RLA (riders libreration army) RLO maybe.

    still working on the secret handshake too actually, but it won't be too touchy feely

    current vacancies > ploitical wing (joeolesa?)
    > technical support, for radar jamming etc... and a sound knowledge of lazers

    donations most welcome...maintaining a fleet of stealth bikes in a secret underground bunker akin to the bat cave, is expensive.
  13. the second rule of Speed Club is YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT SPEED CLUB.
  14. Would it be known as the Motorcyle Reactionaries Association?
    Or the Association of Reactionary Motorcyclists?
    Hang on that first ones taken by "that other lot we don't discuss".....
  15. I was just telling a friend the other day about the idea of riding in a group of black bikes with riders in black gear... take off the number plate and you all look the same.

    Viva la revolution etc
  16. Good stuff guys.
    I'll be observing posts here and I really wouldn't mind being involved in some sort of action.
    Errr, legal would probably have a better chance although it is tempting.

    Only one problem, ME & POLITICS......:rofl:

    Getting things done step at a time good idea.

    First step would be having changes to major roads (VicRoads not Local Councils) more transparent and public before they actually happen.

    Apparently an issue at times with communities.
  17. Questions...

    What argument could we put forward for objecting to speed limit reductions?

    What argument could we put forward for raising speed limits?
  18. Firstly, I would argue that VicRoads would put their case forward BEFORE lowering speed limits publicly so all can openly evaluate the reduction.

    I'll use the following only as an expample.

    Reefton Spur loop has pretty much been reduced from Warby all the way to Marysville. Why?
    Apparently 18 air lifts in the last two years. (Though I've never seen any document confirming that)
    Now this is what people can get angry about because:
    Where exactly were those accidents?
    What were official causes of accidents?
    Was it necessary to reduce it between Warby and the left turn where all the major twisties start and could this stretch of road be a small start in reversing the reduction?

    Additionally, if everyone has access to factual data, maybe reductions in the actual hotspot area wouldn't be looked at as negatively as it currently is.
    I have to say, it's also motorists who are not happy with speed reductions.

    I believe VicRoads and VicPol need to earn public confidence in decisions they make, how they enforce road rules and the best way is to be transparent.
    At the moment, it appears that few people make mistakes (sometimes fatally) and they think the solution is to come down with an iron fist road rule change on everyone without notice.

    Yes I agree that 150 or so casualties so far this year is high but in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of road users every day, it is only a few but just the same too many.

    Slightly off topic, I've always believed that road rules should be permanently taught at every age groups at schools, every year. Road rules should be known by every citizen and not only road users.
  19. But still - and I'm playing devil's advocate here - if reducing the speed limit might reduce road trauma, why not reduce them?

    Why not?

    Because it'd add 90 seconds to the travelling time?

    I guess my point is...
    We don't want speed limits reduced because they aren't as fun at 80 as they are at 100.
    But damnit, roads aren't supposed to be fun.

    Until we can come up with compelling reasons NOT to reduce speed limits, we will be on the back foot.

    Asking for justification from VicRoads when they want to reduce speed limits isn't going to be effective. They've already got their justification. We need reasons for them NOT to reduce them.
  20. i still believe as the speed goes up so does people concentration levels, and i believe most limits are too low for modern vehicles, ie they do both the speed and handle quiet well for our modest limits