Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

VIC TAC Release - Riders figure high in road trauma data

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by joetdm, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. TAC have just released this.....

    http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/jsp/content/NavigationController.do?areaID=23&tierID=1&navID=63CC12CD7F00000101A5D19311EC6AC2&navLink=null&pageID=2242




     
     Top
  2. Once again, their solution seems to be limited to punitive measures, not training.
    Dore has no credibility IMO.
     
     Top
  3. agree titus..

    the whole article has a "Because They Speed" reasoning for it where we know is not the true story....
     
     Top

  4. I shudder to think what this will be but if the very strong rumours about an ad that will paint a bad picture of us is true then they are totally fucking clueless.
    hint, a smidsy, but the ad will go on about "if they were going slower they would not be dead" Rather than concentrate on the SMIDSY they again make it our fault.
     
     Top
  5. Pedestrians, 15 %

    Motor cyclists, 17 %

    Drivers 40 %

    pedestrians are not licenced, registered, and dont wear any Protective clothing and have their own foot paths to walk and run on,

    And they are not in control of machinery of any kind while walking.

    Some one is cooking the facts, or just using the facts to suit them selves,

    Thats the way I read the above info.
     
     Top
  6. What is far worse is pedestrians, they account for NO REVENUE yet account for 15% of costs! Where is the pedestrian safety levy? Do you automatically get charged with walking without due care and attention if you are involved in an incident on foot?

    "The TAC Chief Executive Officer Janet Dore said the findings were concerning." Just by the by what is her total cost to the community at large and how much exactly did this little nugget cost tax-payers?
    "Help Help I have burned my toast evacuate the building........................." Imagine living your 'life' like that, you almost feel sorry for them, that is until you realize they are trying to force this 'lifestyle' (existence is maybe closer to the mark?) on all of us and being payed large amounts of our money to do so.
     
     Top
  7. Riders figure high in road trauma data

    MEDIA RELEASE: 20th April 2012
    Despite accounting for only 3.8% of all registered vehicles, injuries to motorcyclists account for 20% of the Transport Accident Commission's (TAC) no-fault costs, latest TAC statistics show.
    >>>And that'd be cut by half if all SMIDSY's were removed.


    Riders make up the second highest proportion of TAC no-fault costs compared to other road users, with drivers making up about 40% and pedestrians accounting for about 15%.
    >>>Wow, pedestrians aren't even part of the traffic flow and look how high a percentage that are! Wow! I wouldn't be a pedestrian for QUIDS! If the rhetoric was to be believed riding is dangerous... being a pedestrian seems far more dangerous given their injury rate per mixing with the traffic flow event. What do ourselves and pedestrians have in common?? Getting mowed down by motorvehicles.


    The statistics are released following the death of a rider in Horsham this week, taking this year's tally of riders killed to 17, one more than the five-year average and equal to the same time last year.
    >>>God I hate this form of bullshit statistics. One more than the five year average given the relative explosion in the partcipating rate is a real terms good news story.


    In 2010/11 the TAC accepted 947 acute hospitalised claims from motorcyclists up from the five-year average of 942. Acute hospitalisation refers to hospitalisation within seven days of a collision.
    >>> Another out of context bullshit stat. A difference of 5 considering the explosion in participation in the last 5 years is an in real terms good news story. It seriously annoys me that the unspoken implication is a highly negative one.



    Riders account for 17% of all acute hospitalised claims in 2010/11 and represented 17% of fatalities in 2011.
    >>>Sigh. Dear TAC, please refer to the VMC submission to the Victorian Parliamentary Road safety Committee inquiry into motorcycle safety as to why this is an utterly bogus and transparently cycnical abuse of statistics and a blant wedge driver in any kind of working relationship with riders.



    The TAC Chief Executive Officer Janet Dore said the findings were concerning.

    "Our claims data shows that motorcyclists are more likely to have a longer hospital stay as a result of injuries caused by a transport accident compared to other road groups," Ms Dore said.
    >>> Janet Dore, what is the point of a blatantly obvious statement given that riders are not surrounded by crumple zones, cages and airbags?? :roll:



    "Because of the more serious nature of the injuries, the overall no-fault cost to the TAC is in the order of 4 to 6 times higher (per registered motorcycles >125cc) than for passenger vehicles.
    >>>Oh really. And what's the ratio for those pesky non premium paying pedestrians and cyclists?????



    The data release comes after Victoria Police detected 118 disqualified and unregistered riders during the Easter long weekend.

    The police operation also detected 240 rider speeding offences and 29 riders not wearing a helmet.
    >>>What the hell does that mean in context?? What a cynical and transparently prejudicial piece of vile. How many were off road motorbike offences?? How dare the TAC cast such a blant aspersion. I damn well hope the calls for "truth in statistics" made to the RSC land right on the collective heads of the TAC. I'm disgusted.

    How many drivers were fined for mobile phone transgressions?? What's the risk to VRU's from distracted drivers??



    "With so many injured riders needing support from the TAC, it is frustrating to see others deliberately putting themselves at risk by speeding or not wearing a helmet," Ms Dore said.
    >>> The riders that weren't wearing helmets are classed as riders because they were on a motorbike, but the vast majority are more than likely NOT genuine riders, were most likely unlicensed as they seized an opportunity to jump on a motorbike. The entire riding fraternity is being tarred with this brush.

    And the blatant statements regarding speeding?? Where's the context?? Low level, high level, highway, urban??? And how's that compare with cars??

    For the record, riders will exceed an artificially low limit where their safety requires it. Deal with it.



    "We hope these statistics remind riders how important it is to take safety into their own hands and stay safe on the road."
    >>>What's the message to car drivers then given that they cause the majority of rider injuries in urban areas??


    TAC research into rider attitudes has revealed that 15% of motorcycle riders admit they speed all or most of the time.
    >>>Interestingly, a similar percentage of car drivers said the same... but THEY ARE NOT DOING SO TO SERVE THEIR SAFETY. So I have to ask, WHO are the better road user group then??? Sheesh. Is it any wonder the TAC and riders have such a vast chasm between them.


    "The research also showed that 24% of motorcyclists will speed if they're sure they won't get caught, with 10% having been caught speeding in the last two years."
    >>>And again, a similar number as car drivers. The propaganda about exceeding the speed limit is a TAC thing that the majority of road users simply does not buy.



    The TAC is working to reduce rider deaths and injuries with a new campaign to be launched in coming weeks.
    >>>I'll bet my mortgage it's more of the "blame the rider" kind of thinking.



    = = = = = =
    What a cynical piece of trash that was. Very disappointed.
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 12
  8. Doesn't this directly contradict the bogus '38 times more likely to be seriously injured'
    figure that the TAC keep trying to push?

    I think their own data has just provided a far more realistic 4 to 6 times more likely to be injured statistic.

    Meanwhile:
    Okay... hands up the 76% of you cardigan wearers who won't speed even if sure you won't get caught. Or have we just proved that approximately 76% of people will lie on a survey?
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 3
  9. My thoughts exactly!!!! ](*,)](*,)
     
     Top
  10. Recent threads concerning TAC have indicated that there are some people even within TAC who are starting to understand riding, that motorcyclists are actually trying to manage the risks.
    Sadly, Janet Dore has proved that this awareness has not penetrated to senior management level, and that she and her advisors are stuck on the 'exposure reduction' strategy that has failed so often before.
    She needs to go.
     
     Top
  11. This media release looks like the intended audience isn't the public, but rather the government again.

    Excellent sales pitch to the government (note: not anyone else) really...

    Thou shall release whatever shall get most money from government
     
     Top
  12. MEDIA RELEASE: 20th April 2012
    Despite accounting for only 3.8% of all registered vehicles, injuries to motorcyclists account for 20% of the Transport Accident Commission's (TAC) no-fault costs, latest TAC statistics show.

    Riders make up the second highest proportion of TAC no-fault costs compared to other road users, with drivers making up about 40% and pedestrians accounting for about 15%.

    Hmm – and just remind me, who is it that hits pedestrians? – Oh that’ll be drivers then

    The statistics are released following the death of a rider in Horsham this week, taking this year's tally of riders killed to 17, one more than the five-year average and equal to the same time last year.

    One more than a five year average and the same as last year….. – yet registrations for the first part of this year are up by 10% and registrations have been increasing every year. Imagine that - huge increases in riders does not actually equal a significant trend of more deaths. Astounding – so how are those drivers doing? You know the ones that kill and seriously injure passengers, pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists…..what no press release?

    In 2010/11 the TAC accepted 947 acute hospitalised claims from motorcyclists up from the five-year average of 942. Acute hospitalisation refers to hospitalisation within seven days of a collision.
    Riders account for 17% of all acute hospitalised claims in 2010/11 and represented 17% of fatalities in 2011.

    So that 2011 thing is almost the same as the previous year then? And if I’ve got this right we have more acute claims including the ones that present a week after the event? A whole week? Erm….would they be road riders, off road riders, kids on mini bikes? No wonder Janet ‘closed’ Dore is concerned if she doesn’t know and can’t put it into a press release. Sorry what was that.. it wouldn’t sound so dramatic. Well you know what they say about never letting the truth get in the way of good story.

    The TAC Chief Executive Officer Janet Dore said the findings were concerning.

    Feeling a bit concerned myself just quietly.

    "Our claims data shows that motorcyclists are more likely to have a longer hospital stay as a result of injuries caused by a transport accident compared to other road groups," Ms Dore said.


    Get outta town! So being hit by a 4WD results in a longer stay, So how about them cyclists and pedestrians? In and out in day I suppose.

    "Because of the more serious nature of the injuries, the overall no-fault cost to the TAC is in the order of 4 to 6 times higher (per registered motorcycles >125cc) than for passenger vehicles.

    Bugger me – a serious injury costs more – thank gawd it’s a no fault scheme and no-one is trying to make me look like it was my fault for being vulnerable – phew!

    The police operation also detected 240 rider speeding offences and 29 riders not wearing a helmet.

    Geez – lets hope those enforcers were able to catch those vile speeders without breaking the speed limit themselves – after all the TAC told me that it’s NEVER safe to speed and I’ll lose sleep worrying about it. 29 guys without helmets eh – bit more info perhaps? Off roaders, kids, blokes and blokesses on sports bikes, Posties, Harley riders? Oh yeah we’re back to the dramatic effect thing again.

    "With so many injured riders needing support from the TAC, it is frustrating to see others deliberately putting themselves at risk by speeding or not wearing a helmet," Ms Dore said.

    But let’s not acknowledge the drop in crash rates of the last 20 years Janet, that might sound a bit too positive and that would never do. Imagine having to say that things were getting better, ad execs from Grey Advertising out of work, huge enforcement budgets cut, speed cameras not earning their keep.

    "We hope these statistics remind riders how important it is to take safety into their own hands and stay safe on the road."

    Guess what Janet? Most of us do our best, we really do but I really thought this was a shared responsibility thing?

    TAC research into rider attitudes has revealed that 15% of motorcycle riders admit they speed all or most of the time.

    My heartfelt thanks to all those who took part in the TAC research that provided them with this.
    "The research also showed that 24% of motorcyclists will speed if they're sure they won't get caught, with 10% having been caught speeding in the last two years."


    Thanks guys, did you really think you were helping when you clicked on that response in that online survey? Maybe you were part of a focus group? Good work.

    The TAC is working to reduce rider deaths and injuries with a new campaign to be launched in coming weeks.

    I’m breathless with anticipation
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 5
  13. #13 joetdm, Apr 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    Guys, responses here need to be made public together in. response to the TAC coming add.. Maybe Blackburn can assist with some how.

    2
     
     Top
  14. Hi all,

    Just sent this off, it really annoys me when anyone puts out a one sided badly constructed release.

    Cheers Jeremy

    Hi John,

    See this has just been released on the TAC site -
    MEDIA RELEASE: 20th April 2012

    Despite accounting for only 3.8% of all registered vehicles, injuries to motorcyclists account for 20% of the Transport Accident Commission's (TAC) no-fault costs, latest TAC statistics show.

    Riders make up the second highest proportion of TAC no-fault costs compared to other road users, with drivers making up about 40% and pedestrians accounting for about 15%.

    The statistics are released following the death of a rider in Horsham this week, taking this year's tally of riders killed to 17, one more than the five-year average and equal to the same time last year.

    In 2010/11 the TAC accepted 947 acute hospitalised claims from motorcyclists up from the five-year average of 942. Acute hospitalisation refers to hospitalisation within seven days of a collision.

    Riders account for 17% of all acute hospitalised claims in 2010/11 and represented 17% of fatalities in 2011.

    The TAC Chief Executive Officer Janet Dore said the findings were concerning.

    "Our claims data shows that motorcyclists are more likely to have a longer hospital stay as a result of injuries caused by a transport accident compared to other road groups," Ms Dore said.

    "Because of the more serious nature of the injuries, the overall no-fault cost to the TAC is in the order of 4 to 6 times higher (per registered motorcycles >125cc) than for passenger vehicles.

    The data release comes after Victoria Police detected 118 disqualified and unregistered riders during the Easter long weekend.

    The police operation also detected 240 rider speeding offences and 29 riders not wearing a helmet.

    "With so many injured riders needing support from the TAC, it is frustrating to see others deliberately putting themselves at risk by speeding or not wearing a helmet," Ms Dore said.

    "We hope these statistics remind riders how important it is to take safety into their own hands and stay safe on the road."

    TAC research into rider attitudes has revealed that 15% of motorcycle riders admit they speed all or most of the time.

    "The research also showed that 24% of motorcyclists will speed if they're sure they won't get caught, with 10% having been caught speeding in the last two years."

    The TAC is working to reduce rider deaths and injuries with a new campaign to be launched in coming weeks.

    I have some concerns about the picture this release paints about motorbikes and that there are no comparisons quoted to put the numbers in perspective, below are the Vic police figures for both cars and Motorbikes for the period that the release quotes from.

    Car/truck offences
    - Detected 220 disqualified drivers
    - Detected 429 unlicensed drivers
    - Detected 546 seat belt offences
    - Detected 4767 speeding offences
    - Detected 798 mobile phone offences
    - Detected 605 disobey signs/signals
    - Detected 69 car/truck impoundments

    Motorcycle offences
    - Detected 16 disqualified drivers
    - Detected 102 unlicensed drivers
    - Detected 149 unregistered vehicles
    - Detected 29 no helmet
    - Detected 240 speeding offences
    - Detected 32 disobey signs/signals
    - Detected 11 motorcycle impoundments


    240 bikes speeding compared to 4,767 cars or trucks; might have helped if you released both figures. Total caught 5,007 with the bikes 240 being 2.4% so under in terms of road user numbers.

    There is no information about the no helmet offences; where they on road or dirt bikes; to just put this unexplained number out is in my opinion a very negative and uniformed thing to do.

    As you can imagine this release will not win the TAC any new friends in motorbike world, it is seen rightly so as a very biased release.

    I hope we are going to see a similar release about how irresponsible car drivers where over the same period?

    Kind regards,

    Jeremy
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 8
  15. no - this is saying that when we do get injured we cost TAC 4-6 times more than when a car driver get's injured. As Rob pointed out above that's not exactly ground breaking research given the relative lack of protection we have compared to car drivers.

    and that's what this is all about. nothing to do with us being vulnerable. Nothing to do with road safety, but just that we cost TAC a disproportionate amount of money so "fixing" us "fixes" their bottom line profits.

    I'm disgusted.
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Kind of shows how bollocks their survey methods are.
     
     Top
  17. But for what, I wonder?

    Actually, it reads to me like she is making a case for more enforcement, more penalties (aha!) and more police resources and power.
     
     Top
  18. #18 joetdm, Apr 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    I'll tell you what, its about having as many of their & vicpol recommendations implemented in the motorcycle enquiry recently

    2
     
     Top
  19. Here's the truth up to 2010 ( I will have to update for 2011):
    VMC fatalities graph.



    The top line relates to actual fatality numbers. At worst you could argue that the fatal count is broadly level... which in the context of the riding explosion, is an amazing result!


    The bottom line relates to fatal rate per unit rego. Compared to the mid 80's, the fatality rate per rego is A THIRD of what it used to be. That is an AMAZING NEWS STORY!



    The serious injury number bounces around the 1000 Vic riders seriously injured every year, coming off a low early last decade of 800ish injuries. Despite that apparent raw number rise, it's actually DECLINED in the last five years and if I was to plot serious injury number against registration, it would show a similarly declining trend to the fatality numbers. What an AMAZING NEWS STORY given the increase in traffic density, driver distractions and car blindspots.

    GIVE RIDERS SOME ********** CREDIT!

    TRUTH IN STATISTICS!
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 12
  20. #20 Maurice Blackburn, Apr 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    This is a hatchet job folks and I think your rebuttal is excellent - now I am up to eyeballs as it's my last day before annual leave but what I'd like to do is get an amalgamation of the comments here into the hands of the Motorcycle Safety Inquiry Committee including the politicians who we’ve been working closely with.

    Any more figures/turns of phrase to support the thrust of our argument? I’ll put something together at 3pm and get it off today.


    Cheers
    Adam
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 18