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Suzuki Across Odd Problem

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by vnblueberry, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. Hi there guys,

    I own the '91 Suzuki Across GSXF250
    I've already used the search button (on google and on NR) and I just cant seem to find the problem.

    It's been working fine recently but the battery seemed to be a bit off previously. It would be easy to start by doing a push start (clutch start or whatever you want to call it). The battery would recharge after a good 5-10 minutes riding allowing me to start it as per normal with no problems. Once I leave it over night, I would require to push start it.

    Only 2 days ago I accidently dropped it (RHS) from a standing position. Now I quickly lifted it back up, but 2 things went very odd when I tried to start it soon after.

    Initially the start button would make a cranking noise (tchtchtch) however it would not start. Thinking it was my battery, I attempted to push start the bike myself. By doing this I clicked into 2nd gear, held the clutch in and attempted to run. Now when I did this, I felt strong resistance in the rolling capacity of the bike. It felt like someone was holding on to the breaks when I am in gear. I tried this on 1st gear, same problem. The only gear that seems to be fine is neutral which gave me no resistance. No matter what gear I am in, even with the clutch in, the bike can move, but is very difficult with a lot of resistance.

    I left it for a few hours, attempted to push start the bike again with the help of my brother (because of the resistance). At this moment, when we pressed the start button, there was no sound at all. Our house is beside a hill, we used that. We got up to a good fast speed before attempting to engage the engine, however this did not work multiple times.

    I am currently charging the bike using a motorcycle charger a friend lent me, however I do not think it will work. I left it charging for 6 hrs, and the lights seemed to be extremely weak, however it made a noise this time (tchtchtch)

    The closest thing I can think of is something to do with the push rod, or starter. Can anyone confirm this?

    I am open to all suggestions, and thank everyone in advance.
  2. 1st things first ur battery is F*^@KED. A good battery wont die over night and require a push start [i left my bike for a month and the batt still started it]. new batt needed

    I seem to sense a dead clutch or clutch cable in need of adjustment ? Bike should be able to move in gear with clutch in. Should be able to put in first (or any gear for that matter) and roll backwards with cluch pulled in.

    Seized engine? try this to diagnose it https://netrider.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=65370

    if it is seized, you can burn out the starter motor trying to bring her to life

    All i can say is stop trying to push start it, could be causing more damage than you want. [forcing things to move when they are stuck]
    Get a new batt and try to start it with that. tell us how u go after that.

    Edit: Me thinks you've been giving it a bit of gas to try to start it up, i reckens you might have also flooded it. Might have to pull out the plugs n clean em out.
  3. thanks willzah

    yeh im quite sure the battery is gone. will purchase a new one as soon as i think i can get it working. right now i dont think a new battery will help

    i borrowed a friends trickle and charged it. there is a noise when i hit the ignition this time, and funnily enough, the engine started fine .. for about 1 second. it even responded to my throttle whilst i hit the starter. then my engine cut off (yes i was in neutral gear) as soon i took off the throttle.

    should i be trying this with choke on?
    any other ideas? should the bike be able to run regardless of a dead clutch / clutch cable (if the bike is in neutral) or would it cut off?

    thanks again
  4. put it this way. a workign battery can deliver a good charge to start her up easier.

    yes it probs die quite quickly since its cold. I would try choke, if not hold throttle just above your idle rpms. hold it steady. when it starts to warm up, the rpms will rise by themselves. e.g. idle is 1500rpm. start her up, hold the throttle at 2000rpm. as the bike warms up, the rpms will start to go up slowly, say 2500rpm. you should be able to let it go then.
    same goes for choke although its a tad easier.


    If your battery isnt good, it cant give enough power to run the bike: as you rev higher, alternator spins faster, giving more charge to battery, to check this, hook up your bike to a car batt. (jump start styles) if your able to start the bike and it runs, you know what to do.

    bike should be able to run regardless of gearbox in netural.

    Check your clutch: if you can start her up, chuck it into first and hold the clutch in. if your bike starts to want to move foward, clutch freeplay needs to be adjusted or clutch cable/clutch itself needs attention.
  5. Your clutch plates can also stick together when cold, it usually goes away when warm, so it's not usually noticed, because the bike is usually warm when you put it in gear.

    Replace the battery, then see if you still have the clutch problem when warm, I don't think you will.
  6. thanks a lot
    i charged the battery using my friends trickler, gave it a good long push (2 man power) and the dog worked. no more sticky clutch plates!

    now i figured without the trickler, this wouldnt work.
    i would like to do this in sequential order so i minimise how much i spend.
    the problem (for the battery) lies within the battery itself or the charging.

    how do i check each one, so i dont end up replacing, for example a new battery when the battery i have now is fine and that the problem is actually the charging

    thanks all :grin: :grin:
  7. Read your first post - you already know the answer! Well, sort of.

    You say that prior to the drop could bump start it, ride it around (charging the battery), the start it with the electric leg.

    I assume that this is once again the situation.

    If the charging system is charging the battery, then it's probably fine.
    Your problem is that the battery is not holding a charge.

    There may be a problem with the battery (how old is it, is there enough fluid in it if it's a non-sealed type). If there are two things batteries don't like, it's being completely discharged and cold weather.

    There may be a problem with a voltage leak, causing the battery to drain overnight.

    Or the charging system might have been overcharging the battery (batteries like this even less that the previous two), thus killing the battery. I wouldn't have thought it would hold a charge at all if that were the case though.

    If you have a multimeter you can test for the last two, but if the need to bump start coincided with the onset of the cold weather (and the battery wasn't newish), I'd be inclined to replace the battery and see. The old one wont have liked all this mucking about anyway.

    My right leg never needs charging - and they call it progress...
  8. thanks for the info!

    i am inclined to believe it is a battery problem. however i have been using the search function :wink: on NR and people talk about a possible failure in the charging of the battery.

    the charging system does charge the battery (since i can start it completely normal after riding it after 10 min+), however i do not know if it is charging completely. what i am asking is if it is possible that the charging system is capped to a certain point? eg: that is will only charge the battery a certain amount.

    battery is X years old, X being probably a big number since it was from previous (and possibly previous previous previous) owners. i will do research on filling it with distilled water. i am not sure if my battery has that.

    when you talk about voltage leaks, is that a battery problem or another issue?
  9. The plates break down over time, a new chinese battery that'll last a year tops is pretty cheap.

    I'd replace the battery, and can guarantee that that'll probably solve the problem. Charging system should be at least 14 volts at a couple of thousand revs above idle across the terminals. Hook up the ammeter _between_ the -ve battery terminal and the -ve lead to measure current draw. should be 3/5 of bugger all.

    Given that it's recharging the battery in ten minutes or so (giving it enough juice to crank over) suggests that the system is probably fine.

    Replace the battery, then see how you go.
  10. could someone direct me where to buy motorcycle batteries? ive been look on ebay, NR and google and i just cant seem to find anything.
    are they available at motorstores? do i have to order them? are they specific or generic?

    thanks :grin:
  11. motorbike shop/mechanics

    same place you would get your sparks, air filters, oil filters & chain lube

    Ebay wont sell em, because since its acid in batteries, its hard to get transport for it.

    generally should be stocked by shops, most motorbikes batteries are similar size. jsut tell em ur bike and they should fix you up.

    I got my battery for 120 i think or i coulda gone the cheapo one for 60.

    Basically batteries work by chemical reaction. Reduction and oxidation reaction (redox). in theory this reaction is full reversiable. but in reality its like 90% (dont quote me, im trying to remember 5 years ago in highschool) therefore batteries actually age and when they become too old they cant hold charge.

    edit: just looking thru the forums, in nsw bikebiz has good feedback, try them or some place simialr
  12. The lead plates in the battery develop a layer of lead sulphate on them as they get discharged, which dissolves again as the battery is charged. If the sulphate is left on the plates too long, it starts to crystallise and wont dissplve back into the acid. It shortens the life of the battery by a fair bit, and is mostly caused by leaving the battery for long periods of time when it isnt at full charge. Some people sell hocus-pocus gizmos that they claim will fully restore your battery's life, they generally just keep it going a tiny bit longer before it completely dies. Get a new battery, and try to keep it near full charge, and it will serve you well.
  13. yes motorbike mike is correct in ways, there are other compounds which form and precipitate out of solution and cant not be reversed. also some of those crystals actualy fall off the electrodes and cant be recovered again by recharge because they cant actually pass on electrons.

    long story short. new battery
  14. I have used a number of batteries from these guys, they are alot cheaper than other places and send it fairly quickly. http://allpurposebatteries.com.au/shop/index.php

    For an across the battery you require is a YTX7ABS or FTX7ABS (according to the manual), here is the link from all purpose batteries for a YTX7ABS http://allpurposebatteries.com.au/shop/product_info.php?products_id=74 for $55.

    How long have you had your across? there is usually some sound from the fuel pump when you turn the ignition on.

    A multimeter would probably be an useful investment, place it on the battery, you will need to lift the storage compartment up, two bolts, either side of the fairings, two screws in the compartment and two just below steering stem (probably not the correct term). Try starting it, if the voltage drops right away you don't have enough juice in the battery to get it started, second once running check that the voltage increases above resting voltage to determine there is some charging going on. Thirdly with the bike stopped disconnect one terminal, and place the meter in series (ie one lead of the meter on the battery the other on the now disconnected battery lead) and measure the current, a little bit is fine but too much is an indication of a voltage leak which will drain your battery while your bike is sitting there.
    Sorry if I have stated the obvious here or oversimplified it and told you thinks you already know. Hopefully this helps.