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Suspension - Mod's and Handling Issues

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by brownyy, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. Hey all;

    As some of you may remember I picked up my Daytona a few Saturdays ago and I'm absolutely loving it. When I first picked it up and rode it, it felt about 7 foot tall. Now however I've stretched and gotten used to it quite well. Flat ground is a no-brainer, getting the stand up and down while on it is no problems, and uneven ground I have to think about. For a week or so my groin muscles were sore while they were getting a workout and building up strength to deal with the new forces etc.


    However today I have an important decision to make. My mechanic leaves for sydney tomorrow and has the chance to take my forks and rear shock with him to have it "internally lowered". Basically I have to make the decision today whether or not to drop the bike off with him.

    Some issues I have found are while filtering I used to drop either foot down while doing some very tight stuff in traffic but now I find myself only splitting where I have a clear open path as getting a foot down requires rapid body shifts.
    Also, taking pillions, I haven't tried as of yet, but I know from limited experience with having someone on the back of my ZZR they can wobble and shake the bike significantly at low speeds and stopping at intersections, and while they climb on and off.

    These two above reasons, coupled with the possibility that one day, I will not be thinking, and will stop on something slippery, put my toe down, slip and drop the bike, are why I wish to lower the Daytona a bit.




    However, upon picking up the bike, the first thing that was down by my mechanic was winding all the pre-load out of the rear shock. This made a small difference and did not affect handling that I could tell. We did try as an experiment last tuesday of sliding the forks through the triple crown by 10mm.

    This did nothing for height difference and totally destroyed the handling. The bike would dive for the ground rapidly during tight turns (intersections etc) and my reflex would be to straight it up thus making all the corners in the city vertical. For the 5 days I had the alternate fork height, I hated it. Saturday previously been I returned the forks to stock height and the bike was sweet again. I took it down the GOR on sunday and had a blast.


    Now, myself I personally know jack-shite about suspension, damping, rebound, springs, gas cylinder thingos, frame swing arm linkages and mechanics and all that. What I need from NR is from advice from experienced bike fiddlers about how lowering the bike will affect the handling. Basically I want to lower the bike and not touch the handling. Any information I receive here will help me make an informed decision hopefully on the issue.

    My mechanic says the suspension dude in sydney will compensate all changes to internal lowering, what he does to the rear he'll do to the front, thus apparently maintaining the handling. While I trust my mechanic, I just want to be 100% sure I know what I'm about to place near $1000 for in modifications to my bike.

    Any advice or knowledge will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks all.

    --brownyy
     
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  2. If they lower the front and back the same amount then it will maintain the raw balance of the bike, but that doesn't mean it will be fine.

    There are number of areas to watch out for. Firstly travel. will you still have enough travel? If you are light as well as short, then it should be fine.

    Secondly ground clearance. If you ride hard you could run out of ground clearance.

    The last point is harder to judge. That is the rear suspension mechanism. The linkages at the rear of a bike work in a pretty narrow range. reducing the working length of the rear shock may take the movement out of this ideal range.

    The other alternative at the rear is new linkages. The same risks apply.

    The only way to know to get a better idea is to find out exactly what is proposed at the rear and find a few people that have had it done.
     
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  3. Maybe you should give the guys at Sixty Degrees a call and get in touch with Stewart of SW Racing - he's a suspension expert and may be able to advise.

    Actually I found SW Racing's page, try them directly? http://www.swracing.com.au/
     
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  4. Have you had a look on the triumph675 forum? It's a reasonably tall bike, odds are on there would be a couple threads about lowering on on there.
     
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  5. I don't want to sound like an arse, but I have to ask.
    Why did you pick the 675 with all the issues you have with the seat height?
    Not trying to say it's a bad choice, just wondering why you made the choice.
     
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  6. Nah your right, several people have asked.

    Loved the torque, power output, looks, note under load, etc etc... the height issues were minor when choosing the bike. Fact is, most of the 600's have the height issue for me. (161cm)


    Holster, I read up on 675net and they all state different thoughts and experiences. Some say lowering links are bad (mmm-kay), others say lower the front and rear the same. Someone spoke about rake-trail numbers which is a foreign term to me, but apparently those numbers are what account for the handling.



    Arrrrrrrrrrrr the decisions... I'm starting to wonder if I should fit the pillion seat and pegs again and do some experimenting with some heavy and light people to see how I go.............

    thanks all for your input...
     
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  7. Ahh. Good choice of bike
     
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  8. find flux and talk to him... he was around here, dont know where he is currently..
     
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  9. Go to a shoe repairer and get thicker soles for your boots.

    got to be cheaper than rebuilding suspension
     
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  10. If you send your stuff to Sydney bud, then that's all you're gunna get from the deal. If you have a chat to Stewart Winton (linked above) you'll be dealing with someone local, well he's in Gembrook but you know what i mean, and he'll keep tweaking it as much as he can to make sure it's right.
    He can also be found out at Broadford on certain trackdays and events, so that really is local to you. He would be my first phonecall :wink:

    Dropping the forks, lowering links, skip it if you can, it's a band aid solution.
    Taking a pillion might be out of the question for you too bud, unless you can find someone smaller than you that wont tip you over, or alternatively someone really tall who can put their feet down for you :grin:
     
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  11. Suspension - Mod's and Handling Issues


    I thought this thread was going to be about how moderators on this forum handled issues and suspended people.. :grin: :grin: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
     
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  12. This may well be the easiest/best option?

    If you change bikes, a lowered bike might make it harder to sell. There was a lowered Daytona 675 for sale a while back, I don't know whether the lady sold it, but it was adverstised for a while. Looked like a good buy to me, until I read about the lowered bit...

    cheers
     
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  13. Congrats on the new bike , mate. :))

    I seriously would'nt be doing anything to the bike until you have had 6 mths or so to get used to it...It's surprising how much you will naturally compensate for things, and those that you cannot adjust for, you will usually learn to ride around and grow an inate caution for.

    If the time came where you were still in need of some suspension changes, like the other blokes have said...get it done local, mate.

    Personally, I'm against suspension height mods...

    Now...the bloke that just adjusted the preload way down to accomadate you...Is the suspension STILL within the proper setting ranges for your weight etc? (I'd doubt it!!)...If not...go shoot him!....not good at all IMHO.

    Look forward to the next run - now with the new trumpet. :))

    John.
     
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  14. Brownyy -

    You're lucky I like you. Dump in General Discussion again and you'll lose the post mate ;) You should know better.
     
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  15. Height

    We used to lower quite a few bikes when I worked @ Bob Martin's. Some bikes can be done by different shock links & dropping the clamps down the forks a bit & some have to be done interally by limiting the return travel. Have a chat to Greg @ ASR & he should be able to steer you the right way.
     
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  16. What did you end up doing mate?
    As most of the NR's that know me will tell ya, when height was given out, I was left holding the door for everyone else and consequently missed out BIG TIME :oops:

    I've always had an issue with being on tip-toes, even with the 600 Hornet which has a relatively low seat height. What I did was wind the preload down on the rear shock. This helped a little once I sat on the bike ... it dropped a tad, but not much. ( I only weigh 65kg ).
    However .. this made the rear suspension VERY soft, handling suffered as the rear would 'bounce' over irregularities in the road, and cornering felt a little uneasier than it should be. Adjusting the preload to improve the handling meant back to tip toes again.
    I thought about lowering links, just wasn't sure if it was the way to go.
    I could've live the tip-toe situation, but on those days when it's blowing a gale, keeping the bike upright when stationary at lights etc, was a struggle.
    Now I know jack about suspension, but I figured if I could lower the bike without altering the spring rate / suspension travel, I'd be on the right track.
    What I ended up doing was drilling an additional mounting point on the bottom of the shocker mount. I was careful to make certain it was as central as possible, and also not close enough to the original, so as I don't weaken it.
    I also had to remove a little material on the bottom end, to ensure nothing fouls. Basically doing this has brought the swingarm closer up, hense droppping the height of the bike without effecting spring/shocker rate. I then pulled the front forks through the triple clamps to compensate. With the bike height droppped aprox 30mm, I was able to introduce more preload the the rear spring/shock.
    Ground clearance decreased, but IMHO, not enough to concern me. I doubt I'll be scraping anything anytime in to the future.
    Road test: I felt alot more secure and confident being able to flat foot. Most importantly the ride had improved leaps and bounds.
    The bike was firmer on the road, not bouncing around over bumps etc .. even cornering felt more 'stable' ? which makes me feel more confident ( something I need heaps of when it comes to conering ).
    All in all, I'm pretty pleased with the results. ( I may have to shorten the side-stand a little )
    As I've stated I'm no suspension guru, so if anyone has any feedback, please be forthcoming.

    PS: The other bonus is that the procedure is completely reversible... just mount the shock using the original location and all is back to factory standard. :D
     

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