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Supercorsa SP/SC and Q3

Discussion in 'Riding Gear and Bike Accessories/Parts' at netrider.net.au started by dima, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. #1 dima, Oct 9, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
    Hi,

    This is a very specific question about those two tires and only those (so not asking to review one or the other tire).

    I want to hear a good comparison between the two (and only two) tire types from riders (preferably track riders) who actually used both for some time.

    I'm not looking for technical details, specs and don't care about carbon jargon or anything like that.



    Really keen to know about some specific differences in the feel, tire pressures and general experiences with the two.

    Describe the differences you feel getting on the gas, hard on the brakes, mid corner etc.
    What tire pressures did you try and how does it compare to pirellis? Any suspension adjustments you felt necessary? Etc...


    I'm religiously using Supercorsas (SP mostly, but sometimes SCs too when doing more track days) and curious to try Q3s. But want to know more before I go ahead.

    Few reasons I was putting Q3s off (could be more in my head than real issues though):
    • The small grove on the edge of Q3 - right where you want the most grip (so slightly decreased contact patch as compared to supercorsas, which is basically slick there).
    • Stickiness. Q3 felt much less sticky on the touch to me (quite warm) in comparison to supercorsas (which is almost like a chewing gum when warm).

    NOTE: I don't care as much about wet performance.


    Thanks in advance guys.
     
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  2. Anyone?
     
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  3. dima not sure if this is any help but....
    I have just come off supercorsa sp on my R6 track bike , could not fault them as they lasted soooo long and had full grip at lean until
    I retired them with no sipes left on the left hand side bloody SMSP :)
    Fantastic tyre , not sure if they would of lasted as long on a 1000 cc bike I do an average of two track days a month and had them on for around six months , always on warmers between sessions which I think helped as they would not have multiple heat cycles.

    I had intended to go to SC 1 front SC2 rear as most of my mates on Trumpy 675 all use them and they felt way stickier than my SP's
    but I got given a set of take offs (Pirelli Superbike slicks B ) from one of the racers , I may be wrong but I think they are the same compound as the SC
    just without sipes , the difference was quite astounding .
    I can get on the gas hard at lean a lot earlier on the Superbike where the SP I was nursing a bit more through the corner , even so I never felt them lose grip
    just didn't quite fell as secure as these superbike slicks.
    Supercorsa SP is a road / track tyre so being a road carcass it needs to have a much higher psi ,from memory I was running 34/34 depending on track surface temp and was within the recommended increase of 4-6 psi straight off track.
    The Superbike slicks I am running at 32 front/27 rear HOT and the increased contact patch is noticeable.
    My wife is running Q3's on her 696
    I am yet to ride her bike on track but they feel fantastic on the road , very soft and grippy even in the wet.
    She has ridden them on the track and loves them so I better borrow her bike and have a go :) but with those big sipes
    I doubt they would feel as secure as the Pirelli
    Hope this was of help .
     
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  4. dezmonsterdezmonster thanks for the infor, much appreciated.

    Would be keen to know what you'll say about Q3 after the track.

    I was also curious about track only tyres actually since I want to get a spare set of wheels.
    So was considering Superbike Pro slicks too, poorly due to longevity.

    But slicks would be a bit too much because I'll have to ride in (no trailer) and swap wheels at the start/end (PITA).

    I'm currently on SPs track or road until I'll get the wheels and found them quite easy to break traction on corner exits.
    I've actually had 2 near-highsides at Broadford and after that I had to pay a lot more attention to that.

    But otherwise I'm generally happy with SPs, but wouldn't mind a bit more grip at the rear (front is fine as I'm not pushing it much yet).

    I can do about 3 track days on SPs (3 Broadfords for example, all RH corners).
    4th would be a stretch.

    At PI I could destroy the SP in half a day, but that would be under some more extreme conditions (very cold morning then hot day) where the suspension would be a big factor.
    I generally can get 2 track days at PI on SPs. 3-4 maybe if I'm lucky.


    So... I'm considering putting Q3s for the road and maybe slightly wet track day and Supercorsa SC or SBK Pro slicks for the "normal" track day.

    I'd prefer SC as I would be able to ride in to the track. But SBK Pro-s are apparently longer lasting tyres (not sure if they are any grippier than SC).

    So not sure which way to go yet.

    But thanks for the info. The timing for it is about right for me :)
     
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  5. dezmonsterdezmonster do you know much about Superbike Pro slicks? They are apparently cheaper and better tyre for the track days (not for racing) as compared to poor Superbike slicks.
     
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  7. #7 dezmonster, Dec 14, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
    dima
    Im a bit confused isnt the SBK pro and SBK Superbike Diablo the same tyre ?
    The superbike diablo are the first slicks I have used , they don't look like they will last long :(
    But I cant complain as they were free , right place right time :)
    I have done one full track day and two days as a traveling marshal so that would probably equal two full days combined.
    I am back out marshaling in Feb and plan to flip them at the start of the day as i looked last night and there is a flat
    spot about 3omm from the edge where I am getting on the gas.
    This is the one big advantage over the treaded rear as you can flip the rear.
    If you are commuting on your bike to the track maybe sticking with the SP is the go , although the Metzler tyres are made in the same
    factory as the Pirelli and are basically the same tyre but run around 100 bucks cheaper .

    Another track/road tyre to consider is the Michelin One , think they are now called Cup .
    Really popular in the USA for track day riders.
    It is a bit of a stretch calling it a road tyre she is a 16 year old barely legal LOL the sipes are just 20 mm little cuts.
    That tyre lasted a long time (again always on warmers) but when it started to get to the end of its life it didn't have the consistant grip like the SP photo.JPG and instead of slowly letting you know it just let go.
    And due to its very round profile I never got to the edge of the tyre always having a small chicken strip.
    The front ware was extreme , ending up the shape of a pyramid but they lasted ages and are cheap but like al Michelins you need to pay a lot of attention to psi a 1/2 a lb can make a difference and when I didn't they started to melt .
     
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  8. I just re read you reply about near highsides.
    Have you had the suspension set up for you ?
    I have a mate on a Trupy 675 and he was having a lot of issues and a few close calls until he got the boingers set up for him.
    He is a fat pommie though LOL
     
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  9. Hey mate stay away from the SBK pro, the name is deceiving. They are actually well below the SP, let alone the SC and Diablo slicks. The pro is called a track day slick and it's basically hard as a rock And really for beginners only. I've never used them but have read many a story about them.

    If I were you I'd just run the SCs instead of SPs and ride to the track, they'll hold up to some mountain riding just not heavy commuting. I ran SCs (sc2/sc3) on my road bike before I converted it to a track bike id do weekend rides and track days on the SCs.

    The SPs vs SC basically they run more silica on the SP to handle the wet and cold better.

    I've been running the metzellers for the last year or so (been through about 3 sets of slicks and 1 pair of DOTs). I was running the racetech slick and ended up switching to the interact (cut slick/DOT). The dot handle the cold better, in winter I destroyed a good slick in 1 session (<15 degree track temp). Since I switched to the dots I've never had a tear since but the performance seems the same but time will tell.

    The metzellers are a bit cheaper, I get them for 440 a set for slicks or 420 for cuts for a pair fitted.
     
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  10. No. The SBK Pro is the "cheap" version of the slicks.
    It's got a worse compound than the Supercorsa SC (in terms of grip) as far as I can tell from my research.
    It's hard as and thus the reason it lasts pretty long.



    The Diablo Superbike is "proper" slick so your experience confirms this.
    The "Pro" is the long lasting option, which obviously has to sacrifice grip.

    But if the SBK Pro is at least marginally better than the Supercorsa SP then I would be very happy with it.


    That's a really good point.
    Is it officially allowed to flip the tyre by Pirelli or it's just what blokes do?

    I'm pretty sure Pirelli doesn't recommend flipping treaded tyres.
    Not sure if the slicks internal construction would prevent this.


    No commuting. Only road riding, for which I want slightly longer lasting tyre, but still some okay grip for descent price.
    I'll give Q3s a shot as they are slightly cheaper and seem to be a good overall tyre.

    So I plan to run Q3 for the road on one set of wheels and one of Pirelli-s (yet to be decided) on second set of wheels for the track only.


    I mentally cannot go into Michelin as everyone I know is saying the just give up with no warning.
    Very last thing I want really.

    Yesterday my front on SP started to tuck under at Broadford (separate subject on that, was easily fixed) but it was very gentle and with plenty of time to correct. Michelins would probably put me down there.
    So I'm very hesitant to run Michelins on the track.



    I haven't had it done set up by a "professional". But I did adjust it (SAG was set according to Ohlins recommendation) and with time I got to the point where I feel it matches my abilities really well ATM.

    I only had to add 10mm of fork oil as I had very little travel left with nearly all-in preload.

    I hope to see Dave Moss soon and go through the setup with him.

    But I don't think it was suspension. Inappropriate the throttle application for the tyres, track condition and my riding style is a more likely cause than the suspension.
     
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  11. No tyre company is going to recommend flipping tyres, mostly cos it's bad for business. I read up on the practice before I gave it a try. I couldn't find any first hand examples of any issues. Even some guys who race were doing it with no ill effects so that was good enough for me. I've just invested in a No Mar Tyre changer so I can do the job myself. Some bike shops are reluctant to do it for you
     
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  12. I could probably classify as a beginner ;)

    But my mate is using them during track days on Ape and he's pretty happy with it.
    Another one, on GSXR 600, had some scary moments with it at Broadford.

    I guess with traction control it's not too bad (which I don't have, for better or worse)?

    I'm used to Supercorsa SP but definitely don't want anything less grippier than that though.


    I thought the Pireli line up would look like this (in terms of rear grip,):
    1. Diablo Superbike
    2. Diablo Superbike Pro
    3. Supercorsa SC
    4. Supercorsa SP

    are you saying the Pro-s would be at the bottom of this lineup?
    1. Diablo Superbike
    2. Supercorsa SC
    3. Supercorsa SP
    4. Diablo Superbike Pro


    Would be very surprising for me if the slicks would have less grip than lower end of treaded tyres.
    (of course depends on the compound, track etc, but generally speaking).


    It's a bit harder to get the SCs here unfortunately. I'm used to getting tyres from Bruce MMMTS so I may have too look at buying online maybe from other local shop here (Peter Stevens is the only one I know of that stocks SCs).

    With a spare set of wheels I'll just need to be able to get to the track and back (no trailer unfortunately). So treaded tyres are preferred.
    Otherwise I can just swap the wheels at the track, but it's a bit of a PITA.


    SP is still shit and useless in wet though :)



    Cheers for all the info mate.
    So you settled on the Metzelers for the track generally?

    I've been told plenty of times to try Metzelers, but it's just a bit harder/less convenient for me to get them here.
    Well, I guess it's time to try something new.

    Have you had any experience with Q3s? Road or track?
     
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  13. Yeah true that.
    Did you buy the No Mar from U.S.?

    I'd love to do that myself too, but initial investment is just too high for me.
     
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  14. Yep, agree completely. Apparently there was an incident a few years ago were somebody crashed on slicks running backwards and a lawsuit followed so direct instruction has been no reversal of tyres.
    Dunlop has said that there's can't be reversed but in the same sentence said that there's no difference in which way you put it on. It's down to coin really.
    They can't make as much lol.

    How much was your machine to change tyres Darren?

    I reverse mine but it's really hard to get anyone to do it these days. Lawsuits suck!

    I set my best lap at the island on a rear going backwards.[emoji41]
     
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  15. No Mar now have a distributor in Sydney. They have an Aussie website which strangely enough quotes in USD still. I bought mine through their ebay listing which was $420 delivered. The ebay price worked out $30 or so cheaper with the way our dollar has dropped, and the difference is probably more now. I think the ebay listing just hasn't been updated that's why I bit the bullet and shelled out. Works a treat too. Now I just need a compressor so I don't have to drive to the servo tyre pump to seat the bead.
    Jonny I thought with u being staff at PIRD the workshop might turn a blind eye and flip it for you
     
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Blind eyes are hard to turn when people are worried about lawsuits........
     
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  17. Wow! I didn't even think of doing it! LOL
    So you change the tyre, go to servo, come back and balance.
    A bit of a pain, but not too bad.
     
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  18. Thanks for clearing that up for me !
    If you have another set of rims that opens up a lot more opertunaties for you , if you can get the SC and your only
    riding to the track on them give them a try , they are really sticky compared to the SP .

    This has turned into a very informative thread , glad you have got a lot of response from members.
    Keep it coming .
    Still need someone to throw in their experience with the Q3 on track.
     
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  19. The balancer is on the way. For now I just mark the tyre where the weights were put on when the tyre was originally fitted and balanced and make sure this is in the same spot when I flip it
     
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  20. I am of the impression that the pros are bottom of the barrel. I did a quick search of my local track forum and found a thread with a couple of first hand experiences in there.

    http://nswroadandtrackbikes.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-20870.html

    I've never tried the dunlops, tbh I would other with a q3 being a road tyre but the D211 and new D212 are supposed to be amazing.

    The main reasons run the metz is I can get the easily and affordably through my local guy. When your churning through tyres it's really important to be able to get the tyre that you want easily and not screwing around with special orders etc. I am keen to try the D212 next year some time but I'm dialing in a new bike and want to stick with what I know for now. I got a very quick mate who went from the k2 interacts to the D212 and picked up some more time.

    Marty
     
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