Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

NT Sub 100cc scooters

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Brick, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. I'm curious if the same laws apply Australia wide. In the NT it is possible to ride a sub 100cc motorcycle (scooter) on a standard car license. There is no need to have a motorcycle license.

    If always thought this to be a stupid law. Surely a car is a car, a motorcycle requires a different skill set to driving. I haven't been able to prove any numbers, but anecdotally, it would seem that a large portion of these mobile speed bumps end up becoming stationary speed bumps after a session of eating bitumen. In other words, more of them come off in minor accidents and get injured, than "proper" motorcyclists. Despite being on car licenses, they're classed as motorcycle accidents and our insurance premiums rise as our risk assessment is deemed higher.

    I've been talking with local member about this. He asked me if this license loophole is in other states.

    So is it?
  2. You sure it's sub-100cc and not mopeds? I ask, 'cos I recently looked at the various states' laws on just this matter and I was pretty sure the NT was no more lenient than some of the other states.

    My findings were that WA, Qld, SA and NT let you ride a moped (<50cc, <50km/h) on a car licence. No-one else does. I didn't note any provision in NT law that allowed car licence holders to ride anything other than a moped.

    Although I haven't any figures to hand, I'm not aware that any of the lenient states bar Qld have a problem with moped riders stacking it excessively frequently. I did find a report from CarrsQ which reading between the lines, suggested that tourists on rented mopeds may be overrepresented in the crash stats there.
  3. Sub 100cc? Pedal instead......
  4. For the purposes of road rules, mopeds are treated the same as motorcycles, so any incident is correctly classed as a motorcycle incident.

    It is not a licence loophole. Other states such as WA, SA, Qld & NSW allow a person with a drivers licence to ride an underpowered 50cc moped as long as it is registered and complies with Australian Design Rules.

    Unless you also ride a 50cc moped, I'd challenge you to prove this finding.

  5. Scooters are cheaper to insure because they're cheaper to fix. And the figures in Brisbane, where you can ride a 50 on a car licence, suggest that if anyone is skewing the crash stats it's your "proper" motorcyclists. A mate with a large scooter business here notes far fewer customer spills than a mutual friend with a large motorcycle dealership. Or do you just not like scooters?
  6. Even if you crash a 50cc scooter at full speed there probably won't be much damage.

    Personally, though, I tell my friends if they talk about getting a 50cc scooter that they should still do motorcycle-specific training.
  7. I don't believe that NSW has this, Justus.

    The time I was up in Port Douglas there were large numbers of wobbly wee scooter riders, some very cute, but, in the week there, there was one fatal accident, involving a bloke from NSW, who had a car licence, but no bike licence, rented a scoot and managed to kill himself with it.
  8. A bit off topic but kind of related. I just returned from Bali where there are hundreds of tourists on Scooters (125cc mostly). No protective gear, thongs, most appear to at least wear a helmet but the helmets are pretty average. The roads and traffic are pretty crazy there although generally you don't go faster than 40kmh. Seems to all flow though (filtering, splitting and riding on the pavement must be legal in Indo) and no road rage that I could see anyway.

    What I find interesting is the number of Aussies etc. who will ride a scooter in those sorts of conditions but wouldn't have a bar of it back home even for a trip to the local shops or beach.

    (I stacked a scooter in Sumatra earlier in the year; no protection - was very lucky)
  9. It's obviously because whatever you do when you're on holiday can't hurt you in the real world :).

  10. Definitely NOT allowed in the nanny state of Victoria..........
  11. In the NT, CTP is paid as part of registration. It is compulsory done via TIO, which in turn is owned by the NT government. The claim the reason it costs me $850 a year to register my motorcycle, is that the $830 CTP cost is justified due to the large number of motorcycle accidents requiring pay outs.

    Hence the claim, is people are stacking mopeds, and again anecdotally speaking to ambos, the majority is foot injuries caused by idiots not wearing correct footware. Every single one of these accidents is recorded as a motorcycle accident. Everyone of these accidents pushes up our CTP due to the increased risk assessment. One insurer, one set of rules.
  12. So in NT you can claim injuries to the rider or driver on CTP?
    I find these "Third-Party" insurance schemes that cover the first party very odd.
  13. We have a scheme called MACA which covers injuries. I know several people who have claimed against it easily. I know others who haven't been able to. A friend is almost $10k out of pocket trying to make a claim against for her now dead husband. They picked up the tab for the ambulance when I got scrapped off the road years ago.
  14. Very similar to SA. The Motor Accident Commission handles the CTP which is paid with registration.

    At the moment (change is under way) if a driver/rider is injured in a single vehicle accident they are not covered under CTP but the Public Hospital system will pick up the tab. We found this out when my partner broke her leg while on bike L plates back in October 2012.

    In a multiple vehicle incident I believe the drivers/riders claim against each other's CTP though I have no experience with this side of it.

    From July this year we will have a no fault CTP scheme in place.

    The cost to register/CTP insure my 1100cc bike at the moment is $393. SA also has a discounted CTP premium for country residents

    When I was growing up a mo-ped actually had pedals, hence the term Mo(tor)-Ped(als). These days it seems to apply to any 50cc or less scooter.
  15. The requirement for pedals on a moped was originally there because the moped started out as, basically, a heavy duty bicycle with an engine. The requirement for a pedalling mechanism was a not entirely successful attempt to ensure it stayed that way. It sort of worked until the 1970s when the Italians and the Japanese started fitting pedals to all sorts of quite potent 50cc motorcycles in order to flog them to 16 year olds (or 14 yea olds in parts of Europe).

    The pedal requirement got dropped in the UK (and I assume here) when it got to the point that the pedally appendages fitted to some 50s were there for the purpoe of legal compliance but were utterly useless for propelling the bike. The hideous (and complex) folding arrangement on Vespa's 50cc scooters was probably the worst, but stuff like Yamaha';s FS1E wasn't much better.

    So the requirement for pedals was dropped and replaced by the restriction on maximum speed which probably makes more sense when attempting to maintain the original qualities of the moped (low power, low speed utility transport). Whether a motor vehicle with such qualities still has a place on modern roads is another matter altogether.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. No, that is not correct. The CTP works in the same way as most states in that it covers you for the cost of any injury claims made against you. As far as I can tell, it would not stop TIO from looking at how often motorcycle riders claim against someone else's CTP and raise the motorcycle amount accordingly.

    There is an interesting artifact in the total registration cost breakdown as well. The insurance component of my Fireblade is $684.85. The actual registration is $32. For a similar sort of performance car I chose a 5.0L V8. It's insurance is $464.95 and the registration is $321. These amounts plus other tax and admin fees mean that the rego price overall is quite similar...so we don't have it all bad.

    I think that the registration fee is an admission that motorcycles cost the road system less overall and is determined by the Government, and I the insurance premium is set by TIO. The question is, how are they determining their figures?
  17. So this thread was created because of what some TIO pleb told you?! When you have time, have a look at the Riding in Qld thread.

    The determination of CTP rates takes into account the frequency of accidents and the average claims costs for each class of vehicle, reinsurance, whether or not you claim ITC for GST, claims handling costs and administration.

    Link: NT CTP Scheme update
    Link: Transport NT section 4 motorcycles

    Yeh, you are right. Was thinking of the 160cc restricted licence.

  18. I think this should be an Australia wide law. Many countries have a similar law and what it does is encourage cars off the road and onto motorcycles. At the moment the startup to get onto a motorcycle is just too much hassle for most people (despite wanting too), so they continue to clog our roads with cars.

    As you point out, there is a skill/safety concern and I believe this could be countered by requiring a permit and this would require undergoing the first stage of the MOST cycle (as seen in NSW).

    Same should be for small and medium electric motorcycles.

    As too 100cc not being that fast; the 100cc step-throughs I see here are good for moderate acceleration and a bit over 80km/h. That's handy enough in city and urban environment. It's also enough to get you killed.
  19. The nearest I've come to dying in an actual crash was on a C90 Step-Thru at <25mph.