Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Stoner or The Duke?

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by Bravus, Jun 26, 2007.

  1. Of course, the correct answer is 'both'... but where's the argument in that? ;)

    Who gets the credit for the fact that Casey Stoner is so far only increasing his lead over Valentino Rossi in the MotoGP this season? Is his Ducati just that much better than the other bikes, or would Stoner still be leading even if he was on a different bike?
  2. It is both the bike and the rider but mainly the rider, so im just waiting for westy to stay upright on the kwaka to prove this point :grin:
  3. You forgot Bridgestone tires.

    You forgot the Magneti Marelli electronics package.

    You forgot the Ohlins forks.

    You forgot Shell Oils.

    etc etc...
  4. My response to that question, is with another question:

    "Would Rossi still be 2nd in the championship if he were riding another bike?"

    It's never a clear answer. It's all about the complete package. Sure, the Ducati is a great bike, but there's 3 other Ducati's in the field that rarely run at the front. Given that at least Capirossi has proven to be major title threat in the past, where is he?

    Also, we need to consider that last year Casey was 20yo, now he's 21. A lot of people who claim it's all about the bike would seem to overlook that Casey is still gaining experience with the racetracks around the world. When you've only been racing the world's racetracks for 3 years beforehand, every extra year makes a BIG difference.

    Another Question: Would Casey have done better last year if he had a factory Honda/Yamaha bike just like Pedrosa/Rossi, and had Jerry Burgess as his crew chief?

    Let us also not forget that this year every rider is on a more even keel. Everyone is having their first taste at the 800cc bikes.

    Yes, the Ducati is good. So are the Bridgestone tyres. So is Stoner's crew. So is Stoner.

    Somewhat more scarily, Stoner is only going to get better. He's a young lad and has matured a lot in the space of 1 year, which is more or less what we'd expect of a 20yo.

    If I had to choose, then it's more Stoner than the Ducati, but gee, what a difference it makes to get an opportunity to ride a factory bike backed by a factory team and a race chief that believes in you, eh?
  5. Ducati have built a great bike, but it can't be all that because his team-mate is nowhere to be seen....

    Casey has served a long and often painful apprenticeship and has matured into a thinking rider, but it can't be all that because so have lots of the people he's routinely making look like hacks..

    Sometimes in motorsport a driver/rider-car/bike combination just hits the 'sweet-spot' and I suspect that this is the case here. And, of course, good tyres, great engineers, etc.

    But, for example, would Schumacher have won his last few world championships in any car other than the Ferrari? Absolutely not....

    On balance I reckon it's 75% Casey, and 25% the bike and the rest.
  6. If it has to be one or the other then it has to be Casey, otherwise Loris Capirossi would be up there too.
  7. ^^^ +1. Exactly what I was gonna ask, if the duke is soooo good, where's Capirossi.
  8. i think it's the rain
  9. It is both, but mainly Stoner. Put him on the Yammy & he'd still be winning. On a honda or kwaka maybe not so much, but he'd be up there.

    the simple fact is that Stoner is a great rider, and the Duc is a great bike.
    Put any great rider on a great bike & together your only ever going to get great results.
  10. Not quite, check out www.motogp.com and you'll see that this season Stoner is more often than not the quickest bike, with Capirossi not too far behind. Capirossi had quickest lap till he came off on Sunday. So all that means is that Stoner is a better rider than Capirossi.

    Good luck to Stoner for getting a bike that suits him and of course wish him all the best to be the first Aussie since 1998 to win the World title.
  11. I agree with all of that. :)

    Stoner's display at Donington was effectively a master class. Unbeatable on the day.
  12. Yeah, I guess when someone says 'I couldn't believe how easy it was to pass Valentino', *something* is going right!
  13. I suppose the difference is that Schumacher turned the Ferrari in to the car to have, they had won nothing for years.

    I would say Stoner is more like Alonso put a great driver into a great car you are going to win stuff. Stoner probably is a great rider only time will tell, but today its all about the package.
  14. I guess the ducati's secret invisible training wheels for last weeks race in the wet helped stoner get from 12th position to (eventually) first...

    Besides the invisible stuff stoner has to help him overtake people on straights and corners, he isn't too bad of a rider. Bit of a Ben Kenobi, looks ok from the outside but don't mess with him! The force is strong in that one or some other cheesball saying.

    +1 for Stoner if it boils down to Stoner or the bike only.
  15. You could put any number of riders on that bike, but how many would have performed the way Stoner has over the past 2 rounds (in particular)?
  16. there is a direct relationship between the Ducati forging its way to the front and MickyB's participation in Netrider :p :LOL:
  17. This was the initial debate, things were going to change when they were racing on the European circuit and straight line power advantage would be nullified...remember all that?? (I'd imagine wet races would have a similar effect)
    Well we are there and the batting order hasn't changed, give the kid his due.
  18. If you check out the results for 2006, you'll also find that Stoner almost always had the quickest trap speeds on his privateer Honda bike, beating the factory Honda's of Pedrosa/Hayden by 5kph or so at times, and indeed, the rest of the field for that matter.

    It just seems to be something about Stoner's style in that he's able to smoothly put the power down out of corners really well.

    It should be fairly obvious by now that the reason why Stoner crashed so often last year was more a fault of the bike setup, than Casey himself.

    I know that I personally bagged the crap out of him for crashing all the time lat year, but even I'm starting to come around to understanding that it was likely more the bike's fault.
  19. It's a combination of bike and rider
    The right rider for the right bike they are bringing out the best in each other the more confidence the more success the more success the more confidence
    He will win this year because of it
  20. I don't necisaraly agree with that.
    I would say he consistantly dropped it on corner entries as he was learning the way to handle the weight and entry speed of the new bike.
    He has got that learning behind him, and is now moving forward. I say this remembering he has come from the smaller bikes that go for carrying corner speed to the point shoot break style of the 1000's