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Stalling & getting stuck in gear

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by Kez Across, Aug 10, 2004.

  1. There's something annoying me about my bike..... :?
    It's going for a Major service on Thursday, which will hopefully fix the problem, but I'd like to have an idea from others as to what the problem might be (so that the mechanics can't rip me off).

    Basically - If I do an emergency stop from a speed above 60 km/h, even with the clutch in, the engine will stall....
    Then I won't be able to get the bike out of whatever gear it was in!
    If I do a low speed (2nd gear) emergency stop, it doesn't stall, but it still gets stuck in gear...

    The only way to get it out of gear is to try letting the clutch out until the bike moves a bit, pull clutch back in and trying changing gears again.

    It's a real bugger when stopping at an intersection etc, if I don't go back to 1st approaching the intersection, I'll have trouble getting the bike out of 2nd and back to 1st or neutral.

    I'm wondering if it's just because it needs new oil (it occasionally finds neutral instead of going up to 2nd when taking off), or whether it could be a more expensive problem.

  2. You could be right about the oil there Kez.
    The other thing I find is that a badly adjusted chain will do exactly the same thing.
  3. A lot of gearboxes are the same. Cow-are-sucki had a "positive neutral finder" which seemed to work orrite on the ZX6 but every bike i've ridden will do the same thing.
    It was explained to me when I did my licence but that was a while ago and I can't remember the reason as to why it happens.
  4. Motorcycle transmissions are designed a lot differently from cars, you can't just take it from 6th to 3rd for example, jumping gears. It's real hard to change gears from an emergency stop because you've downshifted through a ton of gears without engaging each one. As for the 2nd gear doing that, my old Kwaka trail bike was real bad with that, are you engaging 2nd gear at all? Or just shifting into it then going to stop?

    Anyway, none of this is uncommon and by the sounds of it your bike has no serious damage. :D
  5. Check and adjust your idle adjuster on the left hand side of the bike .
    the across idles at around 1500-1800 rpm, as it needs it to keep the oil moving while idleing .
    also change your oil this might cause the trouble getting it out of gear
    and adjust your gear shift lever too , if its not set up comfortably for you it may not slip in easy with out have to jump on it.

    I cant remember if it was you a while back or not who posted that they dont use the clutch , if it was ignore the following but if it was , stop clutchless gear changing :wink:
    it has a clutch for a reason .
  6. LOL - I think maybe my idle speed is the problem.... My bike only idles at about 900 rpm! :shock:
    I rarely clutchless shift (but I had to LEARN how to use the clutch, as I always used to change without the clutch before I started riding a road bike, so yes, it was me).
    The gear lever setup is comfy, no problem there.
    When I do an emergency stop, I don't change gears AT ALL, just brakes and clutch in at the last minute.... whether it's in 2nd, 3rd or 6th (or anywhere in between), it just gets stuck (above 2nd gear, & that's when it usually stalls too.... as above, idle speed too low is probably the cause).

    When I'm doing a normal "slow down", I go down one gear at a time, letting the gearbox & engine do some of my braking for me.... however since I don't always count which gear I'm down to, sometimes I've stopped still in 2nd gear (when I'm completely stopped I always check to make sure I'm in First by finding neutral going Up One, then go back down to first, ready to take off)... that's when it's got stuck in 2nd a couple of times.

    In normal riding, it changes gears no problems (up and down - except the occasional "neutral" instead of going to 2nd).... it's only "stopped" that it gives me trouble!! Maybe it's just trying to tell me not to keep stopping??!! :twisted:
  7. That's because you've put the transmission into 3rd then skipped engaging 2nd again then straight back to 1st, that's why 2nd is hard to get out of.
  8. Not sure what you mean... ??
    I click down a gear, let out clutch while braking till I slow down some more, put clutch back in, down another gear, clutch out, slow down some more.... If I make it all the way down to first, (which I never know until I can't go down any further!) there's not a problem.... Sometimes though I have to stop before I can try to "go down" another gear, so I just pull the clutch in, stop, then try to go down the gear (which is usually when it WON'T go down).

    When it won't go down, I try clicking up to see if it goes to neutral. IF it does, then I was obviously in First already (hence the reason it wouldn't go down any further!), so I just go back to first. IF it doesn't go into neutral, then I was obviously in 2nd... so I have to go back down (back to 2nd) and try again to go down to first (or neutral), but it won't budge.... until I let the clutch out a bit (keep revs up a little so it doesn't stall & roll bike forward a touch) then try again.
    I hope I made sense this time! :wink:

    P.S. Another guy on another forum just told me this:
    SO THAT is probably my whole problem! LMAO.
  9. lol yeah it did sorta, I think what I said before was inaccurate to the case you were describing anyway. I thought you couldn't upshift from 2nd.

    Umm sounds a bit weird, but doesn't sound overly stranger then normal. lol my advice would be to try and shift quicker so you always make it into first, and if you don't, and it won't go down to first just slip the clutch a bit to engage 2nd.

    :? Sorry best I can do
  10. drive safer so you dont have to emergency stop :p
  11. The instructor told us at the advanced braking and cornering course that you should ALWAYS change down gears, even if it is a emergency stop. Practice until it's natural.
  12. I got told the same as tanyathecheeky during my learners course.

    You may find you can get it out of gear by pulling in the clutch, pulling the bike backwards a couple of feet, then pushing it forwards - once you're moving forwards you should then be able to tap down through the gears.
  13. low revs as robert mentioned sounds like the cause.

    multi-plated clutches tend to stick with old/bad oil,
    which can cause stalling when engaging from
    high rev, and slowing down.

    sticky gears are inherit in some bikes. as mentioned,
    you just have to change them while bike is moving...
    even bikes with excellent gearing.

    other causes for bike installing after emergency
    stop can be bad tuning (unsynced fuel/ignition
    systems), bad plugs, bad fuel, restricted fuel,
    restricted air flow... again, a million things.

    if you're bike is idling at 900 revs, then that's
    a definate cause. it's too low.


  14. i think its all been pretty much covered here, i doubt theres anything that a quick idle adjustment and a change of habits wont fix. your idle IS too low for a 4 cyl 250. pop it up to around 1500. if you pull the clutch in at speed, does it stall? if not, then you may need to adjust your clutch, sounds like its staying slightly engaged. if so, then its all the idle, bang that up and you're set i should think.

    the gears have been covered pretty well, you cant expect to change gears without the bike moving. add shifting down to your emergency braking practice, eventually it will become habit. you dont need to engage each gear, just shift down quickly while you're still moving. remember, that foot is doing NOTHING else while you're braking, might aswell make it easier to take off.

    will also help when you want to rev the guts out of the bike, give the driver of the car that made you stop a big one fingered salute and then fly off into the sunset :twisted: it looks much cooler when you're in first gear already and dont stall it :wink:
  15. Check your chain tension Kez don't know why but it does make a difference on Bond when he's sticking in gears!
  16. [quote="EvN]Motorcycle transmissions are designed a lot differently from cars, you can't just take it from 6th to 3rd for example, jumping gears. [/quote]

    True. the shift drum is a rotary sequential system, unlike cars with their H-pattern shifters, where you can choose whatever gear you like without cycling through them one at a time.

    Rolling the bike forward definately helps. When the trasmission is rolling, the selector can slip in much easier.

    As for the emergency stop, your oil may just be old - when wet clutches have to deal with degenerate oil, the steel and friction plates aren't lubricated as well as they should be, and can start to drag a bit - hence the stall.

    An oil change should help, but go to howstuffworks and check out their gearbox topic. Should give you a better idea of what's going on in that engine case.