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Staked Master Link - Do I need one?

Discussion in 'Modifications and Projects' started by mawhins, May 25, 2016.

  1. #1 mawhins, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
    Hi all, I'm planning on changing the size of my rear sprocket on my 09 CB400. The guy at the Honda dealership reckons I can just nip the pins out with an angle grinder and use a generic master link to shorten the chain (sounds dodgy to me but that's never stopped me before). The user manual however says I must use a staked master link.

    The chain is an o-ring type, do I need to use a staked master link? Also, if i'm going to buy a chain breaker/staker (if there is such a combination) any recommendations?

    Any advice gratefully received.
  2. Before you cut/grind the chain to remove a link, remove the rear wheel, fit the new sprocket (not sure if your going bigger or smaller on the sprocket?)
    then check to see if you can fit it back on the bike with the same length chain. you may need to loosen the chain adjusters off to remove the rear wheel, this will aid, if fitting a larger sprocket. Best outcome is no cutting needed.
    I believe the CB400 is a 525 pitch chain (double check with the chain, it should be stamped on every second link, on the outside plate), your sprocket will be the same with also.

    If you need to increase the length of the chain, you will need an extra bit of chain, the same 'pitch' chain, either 3,6 or 9 links. Make sure you have the same pitch chain and joiner.

    Staked Master Link simply means a 'Rivet type joiner', which is what I use for my road bikes. 'clip' type joiners are more commonly used on dirt bikes.

    Never try adding length to a chain by using joiners linked together, recipe for disaster!!!!!

    Remember, double check before cutting.

    Here is a link, that might explain chain sizes.
    Motorcycle Parts for Quad, Road, Motocross and Off Road Bikes
  3. Cheers, I should have stated up front that I'm going from 44 to 36 teeth on the rear. It sounded good when I typed it into gearcommander but when I saw how small the sprocket was in real life I was a bit taken aback!. I'll follow your advice and test the length but I'm doubtful. I was also thinking of buying a new chain to go with the new sprocket that way I could swap back. If i shorten the one chain I can't obviously. Then I have to take into account the wear on each of the parts I suppose.
  4. If you make the front sprocket bigger you won't have to make the rear so much smaller...
  5. That's a real good idea. It's a big change in gearing. Have you done the maths? It is worth knowing what revs your bike will be running at with the new gearing at the speeds you ride. Most people gear their bikes so that the torque available very close at hand for overtaking. or that one downshift puts you square in it for overtaking. Others might just want to take 500rpm off their usual speed for a more relaxed feel.

    A lot of people waste money thinking that they are going to get something different than they do and either return to the original gearing or choose something in between. Sometimes they find they speed up first gear more than they like. Using a calculator like gear commander is a real good idea. It is also worthy of the consideration of what this is going to do to the revs in each gear.

    I reckon it's just about perfect if an engine is running just off the boil at the legal limit. One gear less will provide the same at 80, and changing down again will provide the same at 60. I have a bike like this where 5, 4, and 3 (of 5) work beautifully like this. - it did take rehearing.

    Good luck.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. With this change gearing commander (if ive used it correctly) puts me at a smidge over 5k at 100kph. My daily commute is 80% highway so this is appealing but am a little worried about the torque trade-off. I wouldn't be surprised if I find myself gong back or to an intermediate size as you suggest jstava.
  7. It's a cb400 that revs out at over 13000rpms. If you're worried about torque just kick it back into 4th and vtec your way around whatever you're overtaking. I reckon you'll struggle up hills in top gear (this is purely speculation) but it's a small inline four that loves to rev and was made for shuffling through the gearbox. Gearing down to keep it out of vtec on the freeway is a great idea for economy, and if you need torque, get the revs up with a lower gear...
  8. Thanks Steve sounds like a plan. I've tried riding the twisty roads around nebo and glorious and I had to pull over to let the real riders past so I'm not worried about my uphill speed :)
  9. I just meant like if you're on the motorway in top gear doing 100 you're not going to have the ponies to overtake so you'll have to shuffle back. But again this is purely speculation.

    For a LAMS bike the cb400 has frightening acceleration above 10k rpms, will be interesting to see how it pulls with longer gears. Let us know :)
  10. Will do and yes I've given myself some frights. I'm surprisingly ham fisted for an old bloke. Must be the old dirt biker in me.
  11. Just don't try and take-off on any sort of hill unless you have a brass clutch, and if your girl is fat, leave her at home.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Ok wheel is off but i can't find in the user manual what torque i should be putting on the sprocket nuts.

    Does anyone know?
  13. You'd need a workshop manual for that sort of detail. It's probably available as a download, maybe even on this site. Honestly, I've never bothered with a specific torque.

    Maybe it's a bit bogan of me, but its generally steel bolts through the sprocket into the sprocket carrier which is made of alloy. Stripping is a distinct possibility, if one gets too enthusiastic about it. I go sort of medium tight, and use thread locker (locktite) to ensure they don't loosen. I've never had a problem that way. I think the locktite is important, as there is quite a lot of different kinds of vibration in that area. With steel bolts into alloy you can't just tighten them until you start to feel the threads distort slightly as you can with steel/steel. The steel thread on the bolt will just tear out the alloy threads in the sprocket carrier if you go too tight. The bolt heads are exposed, and visible. You can mark them with a bit of nail polish so that you can easily check to see if they move at all. It is one of those things I tend to keep an eye on, and have had one sprocket loosen once, but only where I did not use locktite on the bolts.

    Somebody will have a torque figure, surely. There is some comfort in knowing you've done it right. A torque wrench is of no use if you don't use it, and worse than useless if it isn't accurate. I admire your attention to detail.
  14. Thanks for the reply I went with 50 newton metres but I haven't put any lock tight on. I'll do the nail polish trick and keep an eye on them.
  15. Mate I've used this manual before


    It's for cb400 superfour so I guess that's pretty similar to your hyper vtec revo... Anyway, page 17 of the manual above gives rear driven sprocket nuts at 65nm so you're pretty close. 65 seems quite tight which is a bit of a worry, maybe undo, throw some loctite on and stick with 50nm. As earlier, a stripe of nail polish over the nut and bolt will show you if there's any unwanted movement but a dab of blue loctite and 50nm should get you out of trouble... I've only changed two sprockets in my short motorcycling career but I did them both before I had a torque wrench :-O and nothing's moved
  16. Thanks bloke.
  17. I have a CB400 maintenance magazine from Japan and it shows 64nm for the sprocket nuts. I used that setting on mine (no loctite) and all is good so far after 1000+ kays.