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Stacked it on the way into work today

Discussion in 'Your Near Misses - A Place to Vent' started by Danielt, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. So on the way into work early this morning I managed to lowside my bike in the wet.

    In the lane closest to the kerb on Queen St I think, paralleling Parramatta Rd into Sydney. Motoring along on my ninja 300 doing about 50 when the hilux next to me indicates and starts moving into my lane, I see it, give it some gas and get out in front before he collects me, look back to the front and a red light about 60m away, grab the front brake hard, and down I go.

    Bit bruised up but nothing serious injury wise. Right hand side fairing scratched along with the brake lever and bar end and exhaust. Rearset bracket snapped in half.

    Managed to limp it into work, needs a new rearset bracket and the rest is cosmetic.

    Wearing all my gear, Alpinestars smx 5, dainese newater jacekt, draggin jeans, AGV helmet and shorty gloves, everything held up pretty well.

    Bloke in the Hilux stopped and helped me and didnt run me over so thats a win.

    Lessons learned, don't grab the front brake that hard, and I really shouldn't have cheaped out and not got the ABS version.

    Honestly biggest issue is the fiance stressing over bikes again!
  2. No good mate, but pleased to learn that you are okay. Take it easy over the next few days in case the bruises and aches come out, and make sure to look out for signs of delayed onset shock. All the best mate.
  3. Perhaps another lesson you could take away from this is that the school of powering out of trouble ain't such a good school.

    You can scrub speed off faster than you can put it on, and it is a far mor defensive action than pouring on more speed.
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  4. Funny you should mention that, I accelerated over braking as I was concerned about the sketchy conditions. Thinking back, ideally, I would have seen the red light, hit the horn/brakes and moved over in my lane just in case. I am aware the accident was caused by myself here, but I'm pretty certain my next bike will have ABS to reduce the chances of me stuffing up a panic braking situation like that.
  5. glad you are ok. I'd get checked out anyway just in case.
  6. That's a pretty hectic rat run. The problem with the rat runs is everybody in them thinks they are smarter than traffic and hence you get a lot of Lane changes. Try to ride along offset to the cars next to you. Don't spend any time next to a car either overtake or get over taken.

    Glad your OK. As others have said get yourself checked out.
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  7. Bad luck mate. Wet weather with traffic is probably one of the most dangerous times to be riding and I think its good that you didn't chicken out of that.

    Clint has a point. Sounds like letting the Hilux in may have been better than getting past. Sometimes gassing it out is a better idea though. Its something you get a feel for as much as it is something you can analyse.

    One opinion I'd like to share regarding this scenario; Once you make the decision to gas it out and get in front, you should not be looking at that car anymore but rather where you're going. In other words you're looking at the gap you're aiming for before you pass the Hilux and looking out ahead afterwards. Don't look at the Hilux, especially as you're passing it.

    I only say this because you said that you got past the Hilux, looked up, and then saw the red light.
  8. Should probably clarify im about to finish my green P's, been riding 3 years and done about 10 thousand k's in varying road condtions. I commute to work on the bike in rain, hail or shine. Thinking back, i don't know how I missed the oncoming traffic lights, I must have seen them, but then lost focus because of the Hilux.

    I'm also a bit curious, my bike still has the IRC Roadwinner tyres fitted, wondering if I may have had better luck with a radial tyre? like the Michelin pilot street or Diablo rosso corso II? Probably not I assume since my biggest mistake was smashing the front brake with all the with all the grace of a charging hippo.

  9. Doesn't mean shit if you can't yet handle yourself in emergency situations.

    10,000km of practicing your "setup and squeeze" should have given you the muscle memory to perform what was required in that situation.

    I think you know the answer.

    You found a weakness in your riding (the hard way ;)) work on improving that aspect of your riding, braking technique, E-braking and the hardest one to fix survival reactions.

    How much of your 10,000km was the same mindless journey to and from work on the same route? How much was actually practising your skills finding your weaknesses and improving yourself?

    I clock up those kinds of km's in months not years and only on recreational rides (not trying to turn it into a pissing competition) every time i go out I think to myself about one single aspect of my riding i want to sharpen and i work on that aspect. this is after a lifetime of riding and 16 years on the road.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. I'm interested on those with experience view on this is too (I know 3/5 of stuff all about tyres on bikes). Would tyres with more grip help? - possibly in a hard braking case. But does more grip mean that in some situations when the tyre finally lets go there is more energy to dissipate? Or as iClint suggests habitual technique is way more important?
  11. #11 iClint, Jan 10, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014

    you need to understand what is happening when braking, how "Sticky" a tyre is is probably the smallest factor in play.

    even a single pot calliper on a tiny little disc can can lock a wheel instantly, and why the braking technique is critical.

    here is an example of a tiny little brake applying enough force to the lift the both me and the scoot off the ground about 250kg of scooter and rider on a cold wet concrete surface.

    if I snatch the brake up the front wheel would lock every time and skid.

    I am able to extract massive amounts of braking power by using the setup and squeeze technique

    when i set up and squeeze (something that only takes a fraction of a second) i am doing many things the suspension compresses the front tyre is pushed into the road the tyre deforms to create a large contact patch and massive amounts of pressure are applied through the tyre to the road creating a massive amount of grip or friction, ONLY at this point can the full power of the brake calliper be used effectively without locking the wheel.

    the alternative is that when you snatch the brake up none of the above happens and instead of having a contact patch the size of your palm with a massive amount of pressure being applied giving you huge levels of friction, you end up with a contact patch the size of a 20c coin, and very little pressure and friction.

    end result a locked wheel.

    on a side note... when i use correct braking technique of BOTH front and rear brakes together i get more braking power stopping even quicker and stabilise the chassis of the bike and the rear wheel almost refuses to lift off the ground.
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  12. Great thanks iClint.

    At the risk of opening a box of worms, I suppose a logical extension is not increasing tyre inflation pressure much.
  13. Agree with the sentiment, but I'm troubled with it as an absolute. In the OPs case, if he was at the drivers door or forward of that, then powering out may have been the better option. It's unlikely the driver would come across if he were in that position, but I have seen it.

    The above applies even more so if he was already going past the other vehicle.

    The other reason I have a problem with it as an absolute is that it is instinct to go for the brake and it's not always right. Particularly on a motorbike. Telling people it's their best option only encourages people into habits that may not be healthy.

  14. I can see this turning into a massive war of contradicting opinions....

    Tyre pressure is absolutely the most important factor for many reasons, when it comes down to braking it is as follows and again there is a lot going on

    an over inflated tyre will not deform to provide the larger contact patch, to confuse matters a large contact patch does not mean a more grip.

    more force (weight) on the contact patch will give more friction, but seeing as we have a finite amount of weight that can be placed on the contact patch (the mass of the rider and the bike) we need to have a optimal contact patch for the amount of available mass we have.

    so the heavier your bike the more tyre pressure you can run....

    ...so what happens if you under inflate your tyre???

    if the tyre deforms to much you can actually get a smaller contact patch, and in the instance of wet roads if the tyre deforms closing up the Grooves in the tread, the tyre can't evacuate the water between its surface and the road, and water is a great lubricant.
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  15. So sorry to hear about your stack!

    Hope all goes well for ya.
  16. #16 iClint, Jan 10, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
    It doesn't matter what the bike is it can "stop" faster than it can "go"

    In the OP's case ahed of him was a red light... lets assume the OP powers ahead of the car, the car continues to change lanes and is now behind the OP who is now braking hard to stop for the red light... you just got out of one sticky situation but have now created a new one where you have no control... your about to get rear ended.

    there are much more hazards on the road than that one vehicle though... lets assume the road ahead is clear... in the same scenario of the driver changing lanes onto you.

    you roll on the power and pass the the car before he hits you but then from a side street a car pulls out on you, or someone steps out onto the road from between cars whatever...

    By being defensive and braking rather than accelerating you have avoided the first hazard and more importantly SETUP for the next unforeseen hazard.

    I'm not trying to say its an "absolute" but i am having trouble imagining where going faster is better than going slower... can you give some examples?
  17. iGrump is totally on the money. Totally.

    Sorry to hear about your prang OP - seems there's a couple of lessons for you which should help make your riding better.

    Braking is one of the most important skills on a bike - in 10,000km there should have been ample opportunity to throw in say 50+ ebrake practices (not really a high number)... how many did you get in?

    Given what's happened, how will riding/weather conditions influence your riding mindset in future?
  18. sorry to hear about your accident glad you and your bike aren't to bad and you're back on the road soon. Hope your insurance company makes it easy for you.:)
  19. Not saying a bike can go faster than it can stop. Just saying the relationship of vehicles may mean that hitting the brakes make bring the vehicles closer together if the bike is more forward.

    And on the second point, it's not the going faster as such, but circumstance in traffic often means braking can put you in a worse situation. I don't like the idea of teaching people to always hit the brake when trouble starts.
  20. I think you missed ibasts point. This situation was one where braking would have been the better option. But hard and fast rules about what to do shouldn't be made. I have had plenty of situations where powering out is the better option.

    Probably my closest near miss in all my riding was one I couldn't power out of because I was on a scooter. I came down the on ramp of Southern cross drive. There was a truck in the middle lane that decided it wanted to be in the left Lane over an unbroken line without indicating. I was meters from the front but didn't have the power to go forward so I broke hard. It was like an Indiana jones movie as I watched the truck get closer and closer, I held a few skids and narrowly missed the tail of the truck as I got spat out the back. If I had more power it would have been a far far better option.