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VIC speeding ticket - is there any room for challenging it?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by galaxy, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. Hi,

    Today I received an infringement notice for speeding in a 60 kmh zone. The detected speed was 74 kmh and the alleged speed was 71 kmh. The incident occurred on my way back from Saturday's practice session on Oct 29th on the Beach road, Mordialloc between the Bay and Owen streets (these intersections are 450 meters apart).

    Luckily (?) for me, I had my onboard digital camera recording during that period of time, so I reviewed this particular part of my trip to ensure that I wasn't speeding. Unfortunately, my camera doesn't imprint any timestamps on the video, so the only way to prove that the video was taken on that day and time is to ask people who were still at the practice session when I departed (e.g. Hawklord). But most importantly, there is no speed indication on the recorded video, hence I the only way to prove that I was under at least 70 kmh is to sample the time between intersections and then do some math (well, the distance was 260 meters and covered it in 14 seconds, i.e my speed was 66.8 kmh -- yes, I know it's already 1 point, but not 3, right?). I was taking only 260 meters into consideration since the rest of the distance I was slowing down.

    OK, here is a question -- should I go ahead and try to challenge the allegation? Do I have enough evidence that I wasn't doing 70+ there, hence 3 demerit points look excessive?
    I'd appreciate any feedback since it's my first speeding ticket on the bike.

  2. How were you detected? By what means?
    I fit was a camera car or hand held radar, and you prove it was defective. Then all the others that got pinged in the same place should be notified and reimbursed.
    Bottom line is could you be stuffed? Will you see it through? Have you got the cash on hand to contest it?
  3. #3 Dougz, Nov 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    I'd contest it, the more we prove these things are wrong the better chance we have in the long term. However it may cost you more than its worth.
    Also, every point counts and they can add up quickly - something to think about?
    Keep us posted bro
  4. Well, I believe it was a mobile camera in a funny-looking Holden parked under the no parking sign. I'm still waiting for the image they took to arrive in my mailbox. Once it's there i'll decide whether it's worth fighting or not. I'd fight as a tiger if I'm totally innocent, but here I'm in doubt since I believe that I was riding over the posted limit (but below 70 kmh), hence it's just 2 points I'm trying to challenge.
  5. Well, you are right on both points. It's a 10x times money difference if I decide to go to court with a decent lawyer behind my back. On the other hand my record has 4 points already (when I was driving a car, Jan'11), so 3 more and I'll feel uncomfortable for at least 2 years :).
  6. you'd probably need some sort of expert to analyse the video to get it accepted in court. so it could get expensive. I doubt they'd accept your word. how would the magistrate know you hadn't slowed the video? or you got the measurements right?
  7. The only thing that proves (if your calcs are right) is that your *average* speed was 66.8 kph. It doesn't show or prove what your max speed was. You could cover that distance in 14 secs and do 100+ kph max if you accelerate and then brake after a squirt, but still average 66 kph. Don't fancy your chances.
  8. ^^ I agree. All your video does is prove you definitely were speeding. It wouldn't be hard for the Magistrate to conclude that it was possible for your peak speed to be 71km/h, just 4km/h more than your average.
  9. As there is no date time stamp on the video, they could claim what was stopping you from making a video after receiving the fine in an attempt to get out of it. You will have to plan for that issue. I would agree with others, every point counts so consider speaking to a lawyer, although Drew raises a good point.

    Good luck. Keep us updated please.
  10. Unless you have heaps of spare $$$ and time, personally I'd take it like a man and put it down as lesson learnt..

    Victoria is no longer a place for enjoying motoring.. Use the roads to comute and stay 5k's under. Then book in for regular track days to get it out of ur system..

    Welcome to the comunist republic of Victoria... Land of the free - Who ever told you that is your enemy*.. (Rage Against the Machine) Sorry just my jaded opinion..
  11. [offensive shit removed]

    Seriously!! Roll over and take it hey? When the **** will you people grow a set of ****ing balls and contest this shit. We are all trying to fight this bullshit system and people here just want to roll over and take it?!?!?!?

    For ****s Sake!!!!

    FYI I've contested 7 fines, and won 4 cases. I won 3 representing myself.

    Now your all talking about technical details, timings, footage, but has it occured to any of you there is a chance it won't make it inside the court room??!!

    There's video footage the pigs have of me doing 200, cops walked away from the case on the day of the hearing, before they walked into the court room. Yes, it can happen.

    OP; go visit www.trafficlaw.com.au

    SammyA; sorry for ripping into you but I'm right fukn sick of this attitude people have against contesting speeding fines!!!


    fukn got me all worked up now :furious:
  12. No offence taken at all Browny, your opinion is totally valid..

    In fact I have a TIN stuck to my fridge right now for which I am contemplating what to do about it..

    I am weighing up is the cost of taking it to court worth the minimal of pain copping it on the chin? Saying that it may also be worth lodging the objection just to see whats in the brief to make a more educated descision?? As you say sometimes your best defence can be a failure to lodge proper paperwork.
  13. This would be where I would place my hopes. Still, touch base with Sean Hardy and his website and then make a more educated decision.

    I won't lie, this could cost you a lot of money, or it could cost you nothing. Are you willing to pay for sticking to your beliefs that the speed kills campaign is bullshit? Only you can anwser that, and that's your decision, no one else's.

    Either way, keep us posted if you go through with contesting the TIN.

    I'll PM you in a few days with some info on my 7 cases, you would be amazed at how things panned out. Stuff I won't be posting on a public forum.
  14. So should you stand up in court for your right to break the law and speed? Unfortunately you do have that right. The right to waste the courts (taxpayer) time and money and it may even work. It also can cost you more and get you a more sever fine/punishment. You'd be better off going in and saying you're sorry for speeding (since you were) and that you didn't realise you were speeding and will NEVER do it again. Then state that you could not have gone over 70 as you viewed your footage later and plead for the downgrade. If you do fight it, get some legal advice so you are prepared for everything they'll throw at you.

    The world would be a better place if people actually stood up and accepted fault or blame for their own doings rather than blaming everyone else or looking for excuses to get out of the inevitable consequenses of their actions.
  15. I take your point Fullcore but everyone has the right to defend themselves against a charge. That is all it is at the moment, it is unproven. The system is structured around the avenue of least resistance being to pay the fine. My opinion is all traffic fines should have to go to court. It may bring back some sanity to the whole road safety debate and force governments to look at alternate measures. Half a billion dollars Victoria will take this year from traffic fines. I would argue it has not resulted in half a billion's worth of improvement.
  16. Just as a mathematical (and devil's advocate) point... You are taking a 14 second average..... Your average over that 14 seconds is 66.8km/h. Now you probably didn't do that exact speed over those 14s. Therefore it is conceivable you probably went above somewhat... An average over 14s will naturally smooth out the maximum and minimum over that time - so it probably doesn't help your case logic wise. i.e. it doesn't show that over those 14s you didn't exceed 70 - it just shows the average was 66.8.

    Secondly to that - even if you did have the speedo on camera - the speedo would need to be verified as being calibrated correctly. The police officer who got off of the speeding fine on eastlink had a witness and was in a vehicle which had a speedo calibration done on it, and the exact margin of error was known.

    Don't shoot the messenger - I'm just highlighting some logic you'll need to come up with an argument for.
  17. People seem to get confused with the fact that we want to get away with speeding, but thats not it at all.

    The problem is, these camera's are not used as they should be, are innacurate, and actually do nothing to curb speed. What do you do when you see one? You look down at your speedo right? In that time a cat or kid could run out in front of you, the joker in the cage ahead slams his brakes on...well you get the idea.

    If you speed, then yes, you should cop it sweet, but plenty of people are stung when they genuinly think they're doing the right thing. These are the ones you should stand up for.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. I want speeding open to redefinition and remove the massive monetary conflict of interest in its enforcement. Not that unreasonable.
  19. Couldn't agree more.

    I have discussed this before. Basically I see two different types of speeding.

    First is the going over an arbitrary limit on a road sign - basically legal speeding. Regardless of how dangerous the situation might be to do the posted limit, it is legal to do and you won't get done for being dangerous because the cameras can't differentiate. This is the current speeding focus. I think it is wrong. As it stands, you can be legally speeding while not in any danger at all.

    Then there is the 'other' speeding. The one that you can't get on a camera because it is within context of the situation. Speeding where a driver is exceeding their own skills, the limits of the car or environment they are in. Proper dangerous stuff. This may be higher than the posted limit, it may be lower. However this is proper speeding. Going at a speed where it is dangerous. This is not policed.
  20. Agreed. Speed , unfortunately, is the only thing that the gov can wring more money out of motorists. There needs to be camera's that pick up mobile phone use, changing CD's, eating/drinking, innexperience, tired/drunk/drugged up driving, not driving to conditions, unroadworthyness...etc. These are the reasons the road toll is high. To blame it purely on speed is ridiculous.

    But I digress! Take it to court. Yes, its scary, yes its inconvenient and yes its intimidating. Its designed that way to scare you off and for the majority of people it does. But if you genuinly think you weren't speeding than simply go in & see why THEY have accused YOU!