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Speed restrictions for L's and P's in nsw

Discussion in 'Your Near Misses - A Place to Vent' started by icestorm, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. Speed restrictions for L's and P's in nsw more harmful then safe.

    As i have only just got my bike learners a few days ago i have been riding all over town alot getting used to the bike and and riding in traffic.
    But i wanted a bit more and today went for a bit of a ride down the highway,
    Sitting on my allowed top speed of 80km/hr , at first the speed reduction didn't really bother me even less around town for obvious reasons.
    But i soon found myself in a hairy situation out on the highway when a truck and a couple of cars caught upto me.
    The truck had sat pretty much right on my ass for about 5kms while waiting for a good section to overtake.
    If for some reason i came off that close to the truck there was noway he would have been able to stop in time to avoid running me over, this worried me a bit.
    Then finally he started to overtake but it was a slow overtake and about 3/4 past me, traffic coming the other way forced him to come back in.
    Leaving me with two choices, slow down quickly and get promptly rear ended by the car that had moved up behind me and was now also sitting on my ass or exit stage left.
    I opted for exit stage left, so now im on the edge of the highway next to the back part of the truck and the front of a car(idiot could have slowed down to let me back in but didnt) with a bridge comming up that narrowed to just the the lane and no extra bit past the lane line that i was on.
    So was forced to slow down untill behind both cars that had been behind the truck before i could move back into the lane.
    Having had my car licence for 15 years and never having had any kind of speed restriction, this is the first time anything like this has ever happened.

    How can it be safer for L and P plate driver to be exposed to these kind of things on the road? it would be far safer for everyone if was going the same speed.
    Then situations like that wouldnt happen unless someone else was speeding.

    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Take your ****ing L plate off on the freeway and do the limit you goose, or you'll get dead.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. I'm on my L's and know what you're talking about (thankfully haven't had such a close call like that though). It's ****ing scary to have 18 wheelers fly past you with a 30kmph speed differential. Then since you're in the left lane people merging in at 30kmph above your speed... After a while on roads with 110 speed limits I've given up on the blatantly unsafe 80 limit and just do 100 or so. I risk a speeding fine but at least I'm not putting myself at a high risk of getting cleaned up.
  4. Not really something everyone can do... Doing the speed limit is 30+ over (since you're limited to 80), which is a 3 month suspension for ALL licenses. So if you need your license for work you're ****ed, not to mention your insurance goes up (due to license suspension) and the whopping big fine you get.
  5. i'm with sugarplum on this one.
    dumbest traffic law ever, designed to get gullible noobs killed... **** the law or you won't see your next birthday.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. whos idiot idea was this lower speed crap anyway?, obviously they didnt think about the negatives
  7. I don't understand why they put it in either. If they don't think you can drive at 110kmph they shouldn't be allowed a license in the first place. How are you supposed to learn to drive on highways when you can't do the speed limit? Utterly ridiculous...

    That said it's unlikely you'll ever get pulled over for doing the speed limit on the highway. HWP have better things to do it seems, I was on Red P's in my car doing 110 in the left lane and an unmarked orange F6 HWP car went past me. Don't know if I was lucky or they just didn't care.
  8. in another un-related thread recently, brother Smokae posted using the defense of "necessity".
    he further noted that your chances of success with that were poor.
    but hopefully someone does get pinged for it soon, challenges it and has it overturned.
    that law has no basis in making it safer for learner/probation riders... on a high speed motorway it's dangerous, period.
    it even contradicts your rider training to stay safe with lane positioning, because there is no 80kph lane, you don't have a choice.
    you can choose to be tailgated at high speed in any of 2-4 lanes, that's it.
    what the hell are you expected/supposed to do in that situation??... pick the tailgating vehicle least likely to run straight over you when a roo jumps out on the road... ****, don't pick the 18 wheeler with the bullbar filling both your mirrors.

    whomsoever proposed and imposed that law are either sadists or imbeciles... i'd say they're just a bunch of sick ****s who just hate motorcyclists...plenty of evidence of general contempt for riders in NSW by authorities, with other recent attempted legislation, so that's a given.
    I'd take it to court and subject it to reason.

    someones parents are going to loose their child to this law one day soon.. it needs to be challenged.

    that law is by design, purely intended to put you in harms way, as an incentive to put you of riding and conform to the cages like the rest of the sheep.
    it has no basis in your safety whatsoever.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Guess im just left with 3 choices.
    Stay away from highways till i get my full licence, remove the plate and go the road limit or play russian roullette everytime i go on the highway.
  10. choice 1 puts you at higher risk as you transverse countless intersections by avoiding the highways... about 60% accidents involving bikes occur at intersections.
    result = greater likelyhood they get you of the roads.

    choice 2 means they get to take your licence of you.
    result = they get to take you of the roads.

    choice 3 means they get to intimidate you by utilising the bulk of traffic travelling at least 30kph faster than you.
    result = greater likelyhood of getting you of the roads
  11. choice 4, ****em, choose life.
  12. This shit always turns into some political wank...

    Take it to court? Come on...

    Dude, just pull the L plate off, ride a bit above the speed limit (like 120 in a 110 so you don't get bulldozed), slow down to 100 if you see the marked cars and keep your eyes open.

    Keep a bit of your plate on so you can say "oh shit, must have fallen off" when the pigs pull you up. That'll be rare on the freeways, they are after 45 and overs, not a missing L plate.

    If you are on the highways, get close to town and drop it down to 80, speed up if there's traffic behind you so they don't do something stupid, slow down when you get to overtaking points and move left.

    Important: Never, ever look at the pigs when you are doing this. Keep cool, look preoccupied and straight ahead. They can smell your fear, got me that way a few times.

    I have never been pulled over on the freeway, only highways and I went Syd to Bathurst once a week.
  13. As a rider you are going to have to make decisions every day on what is safest for you vs what the road rules say is allowed. It is just a part of the challenge of riding there will not be just learner limits, also there will be to split not to split ect.
    Me i personally decided to sit on the speed limit on highways for my safety believing i could see any police cruising up behind, and any with radar on the side of the road would just see 110km/h on there radar and not look after a bike has gone by for a L plate. that was my personal choice which i felt was worth the risk, you will have to decide which way you want to go.
    If you choose to obey the 80km/h restriction i would advise you to avoid highways and keep yourself away froim the dangerous speed differential
  14. Good points, thanks for the advice.
  15. I KNOW THIS FEELING. being restricted to 90KMPH on my Car Ls just 2 years ago, was not pleasant! having a mack truck trying to overtake you is hells scary..

    having to be almost constantly STUCK as hard left as the car will allow to allow everyone to overtake you.. :( even grandmas in hyundais it was humiliating.

    Now I'm having a slow day if I'm doing 120 :demon:

    Yeah, like what someone else said, take ya L plates off on the highway and do the speedlimit, or youll become roadkill. Or avoid the highway!

    I dont seriously think the morons who come up with these laws actually READ what they put down! 'lets restrict this guy, slower is safer right?' Bloody idiots

    Same tangent as the idiots who think a car doing 112KMPH is going to disintegrate on contacting a raindrop!!!
  16. One of the most dangerous parts of having to do 80 is that you're basically stuck in the left lane which is where drivers attempt to wander onto the freeway either at 140 or 60kmph.
  17. If you take your L/P plate off but obey all other road laws (as though you are fully licensed) the chances of getting pulled over are pretty slim.

    If you stick to the 100 or 110 speed limit you have less chance of getting squashed and no chance of getting your picture taken.

    Basically the why I see it is you have 2 choices -

    1. Obey the law and stand a real chance of being dead, or
    2. Disobey the law and stay alive.

    The choice is yours, but I know which one I'd choose.
  18. An old thread I know, but having just got R P1's, I want to keep them - and not prejudice either that or my other licence class (MR). I have a place up the coast I will go to on the bike occassionally (110km limits for sustained periods), and have a very conspiciously LAMS Virago 250 - which financial circumstances dictate I keep for the next 12 months. 2 of which will be in Europe where I will be the only one to drive or ride my family around (Mrs doesn't do manual or right-side driving). So I must keep my licence at all costs. But I don't want to die out there while sticking to 90 (is this a Darwinian law or what - survival of the fittest, but I digress).

    I have to say I was given a lot of room and consideration on my L's, even on the highway. Now I have a Red P it seems to be on for young and old in the tailgating and intimidation stakes. Very noticible difference.

    I used to have car P's streets decades ago where just before and after long freeway stretches we ripped the P's off as random stops were most unlikely if obeying other rules. Fine in an old Statesman, used to throw a pack of ciggies on the dash as well for added effect, but you can spot my bike as a LAMS from 3 kilometres away - hence riding at 110 with no plate is a big invitation to scruitiny by a HWP with even the most rudimental of bike knowledge. Almost no one rides a XVS250 off restrictions, and even on restrictions its getting rarer with better LAMS options now.

    So running through my options here I guess its a risk assessment, and B roads seem to be the lesser risk, even if it adds over an hour to a my 3 hr journey. Yet I am allowed to drive a 10 tonne truck at 100 no probs. Meh.

    Wonder what a cop would say if I was riding with an L plate? Heaps of car drivers do it when they forget after teaching their kids the day before. Maybe I could say my little bro was riding it and didn't change plate back....
  19. It's your responsibility to ensure that the vehicle you're driving/riding is displaying appropriate plates (or are removed) and not the previous users. Unfortunately the attitude of issuing TINs on whatever they can appears to be on the increase. I highly doubt that this trend is going to reverse but continue.

    You'd probably have a better chance of getting away with it by changing your license as though you were living address to another state - getting another license in a state that doesn't have these stupid restrictions and then 'moving back' once the restriction period on your home state is finished.

    As for the speed restrictions - I highly doubt that the law makers intentionally brought this law in deliberately to put riders in harms way. Rather, I think it's just a result of the propaganda and infatuation of "speed is enemy #1" which blinds anyone who is sucked into believing it. As such people genuinely think that slower vehicles will save lives - and they aren't even capable of seeing the bigger picture.

    I'd be interested to know how many of the unfortunate kids that have been injured (or even killed - I think there's been a couple) in school zones in the past few years were hit by drivers looking inside their vehicles at their speedo's.

    I have no doubt that the speed lust of pollies and police is putting many lives at risk - and this is a classic example.
  20. I suspect 99.9999% of car/truck drivers do not know you HAVE TO travel at those speeds. What motorist would bother to read laws relating to motorcycles. Probably just think you a hoon P plater deliberately holding up traffic and needs to be taught a lesson.!! Got to agree not such a smart law. Probably looked good on paper for the non motorcyclists that thought it up. Perhaps someone from a motorcycle organisation could invite some law makers / politicians / accident research organisation to join them as a pillion on a ride down a busy 100kph single lane road at 80 or 90kph. If anyone has the funds best to get an accident research organisation to research the dangers ( including driver attitudes) to slow moving motorcycles holding up the traffic. These groups seem to have considerable influence over the law makers - they receive enough funds from them.

    ps: As an interstater I did not know you had that restriction. In the car I would have been annoyed but at least there would be a 2-3 second gap back to my car. Now, rather than being annoyed I will be feeling sorry for a NSW P plater trying to do the right thing.
    • Like Like x 1