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SOS - Yamaha FZ1 engine cutting out

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by thegutterpoet, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. #1 thegutterpoet, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    I have owned my 09 Yamaha FZ1 Sy for more than a year now. I picker her up with 8k on the clock, in delightful condition, and have since put a further 11k on the clock. Never any problems whatsoever after first changing the battery, and later on the tyres, oil and filter changes at regular intervals, always use premium. Added in a 16t front sprocket, speedo healer and PC V.

    As I was due to head away to the wilderness to stay in a gorgeous renovated shack on the side of a valley near Riddels creak, escape the human hordes and the citadel, and had organised a jolly hound sitter for my beloved canine son, I thought why not get the 20k service done before I head off. A week ago I took the bike in and the grease merchants changed the plugs, bled the brakes replaced fluid, changed the front pads, topped up coolant and checked all hoses and lines and bits and bobs as per the manual. They also added some EFI fuel additive, I assume for the injectors.

    The bike didnt feel much different after, other than the last two days when it began to feel strangely jerky, as if losing power all of a sudden. Yesterday the engine cut, still whilst town speeds, a little hectic but not particularly pushing. I had hoped it was a one off.

    So with my bags packed and the wilderness calling my name, I set off this afternoon. All was fine until I reached the highway, and then at around 4-5rpm the jerking returned, drops in power, stuttering. so I pushed it higher up the rpm range, and whenever it got back near 4-5500 it jerked, and then started cutting out completely. When it cut I pulled the clutch and hit the ignition and sometimes it came back, but then quickly reverted to jerking and cutting out completely. This was a damn nightmare as I was M1>M80>m8 by now, 30 miles into my trip. Cutting the engine in fast moving traffic, I ended up the service lane. It took an age to get back, when it repeatedly cut out, I had to keep the revs intensely high, yet even then it was cutting.

    I have lost the $ on the first two nights of my accomodation as I cannot get to the mechanics until monday morning, and plan to just turn up and explain this was how the bike was returned to me, less than a week back. It seems too much of a coincidence to have zero problems for the 11k I have put on the bike then they fiddle and service and now the beast is wretched, close to unrideable more than a few metres at times.

    I have removed the seat and peeked under the tank to check if anything obvious is undone, but I do not know what I m looking for. I may remove the PC V tomorrow to see if that remedies the problem, also check the battery connections?

    Other than which I am appalled, and disheartened.

    Any ideas?
  2. except checking for a loose connection Id be leaving it as is & letting the mechanics check it out
  3. Very likely to be the throttle position sensor being faulty or needing adjustment. Try these videos

    Leaving it to the mechanics would be the last thing I'd be doing personally. You can waste a whole shitload of time and money on their ineptitude, unless they're expert with your particular model of bike they're highly likely to just futz around, roll the dice and replace parts at your cost until something works. You've got a better chance of getting it right yourself.
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  4. Thanks for the suggestion, imagineero...I did check the TPS settings when I first installed the PC and it seemed perfectly within the expected range. How could it have suddenly gone berserk? And if it is out would this lead to the cutting? which got horribly worse with highway riding and then for all riding as I lurched, stopped, started, lurched back to base?

    Is it not more likely to be something to do with the plugs they replaced? Or some other connection they fiddled with in order to replace the plugs?

    The job seems a bit fiddly, and I will have to grab some tools for the job? Any idea what I need?
  5. From what I've heard it's a pretty common fault, I've known a couple of mates with FZ1s that had the issue. It's also possible to be bad connectors etc or something simple like wrong plugs/failed leads but my money would be on TPS. Intermittent faults are the hardest to trouble shoot. Engines only need 3 things to work - fuel, spark and compression. It's unlikely to be compression, which leaves spark and fuel. While spark is a possible, it's pretty unlikely. It is worth putting a quick meter on bike when running to make sure you have a working alternator - voltages below 12V send most EFI systems up shit creek. It wouldn't hurt to check connectors, but my money would be on fuel. A TPS that sends back dodgy readings throws the EFI settings way out and gives symptoms much like what you're experiencing; surging, overinjecting, bogging, cutting out. Less likely is the EFI system needing remapping. Less likely again would be out of synch throttle bodies. I'm not super familiar with FZs, but if they have an EGO/MAF sensor and they've used the wrong type of cleaner that can throw a spanner in the works also.

    If you can get to a bike EFI specialist that would be worth doing, but visiting a regular corner mechanic would be unlikely to bring quick economical results. Theyre as much or more in the dark with these sorts of issues as we are.

    I can't comment on what sort of tools you need, but my order of approach would be;

    check for good battery voltage when running
    make sure spark plugs are correct type
    disconnect/reconnect all connectors, check for corrosion
    quick visual to make sure throttle bodies are not wildly out of sync
    set TPS

    Have you checked the error codes? Bare in mind that with most systems, even if you fix a bad sensor, the EFI system will have gone into a fault mode and will not accept data from the repaired/replaced/adjusted sensor until the error codes have been reset.
  6. With the key in the ignition and the KILL switch in the NO START position:

    1. Press and hold both SELECT and RESET on the instrument cluster
    2. Turn the key to the ON position while still pressing the two buttons for 8 seconds. The display will change to "dl"
    3. Release the buttons then press both again for two seconds until you see "d01"
    4. Once there, use the reset button to move backward through the list or Select to move forward.
    5. Scroll to d61 and wait for 30 seconds to monitor any error codes. Write them down.
    6. To clear the codes, scroll up one to d62
    7. Put the KILL switch in the RUN position and wait 5 seconds.
    8. Put the KILL switch into the NO START position
    9. Scroll to d61 and verify the error codes are erased.

    Report back with any error codes you've found and we can tell you what they are and how to test the components or if you have the service manual, you can locate them there.
  7. Thanks mate! I appreciate the lengthy response.

    I have no voltmeter, but can purchase one tomorrow. The plugs were changed by the mechanics, not sure how to check them, other than to take them out, look for any model numbers and check them here or elsewhere...so another tool needed.

    How would the TPS suddenly be out of touch? The bike has been perfect since I purchased, and only since this 'service' has anything gone in any way amiss.
  8. #8 imagineero, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    Just get a cheapy small $10 job that you can keep on the bike. you can't check plugs, just make sure they're the right type. Simple/free things should always be checked first. It could also be the coils, but again kind of unlikely and my money would be on TPS unless you have some aftermarket parts fitted like speedo corrector, extra chips/computers for EFI etc. Coils are difficult to check without a proper bench setup. You can try spraying them with water to check for external grounding, or testing with a meter for internal grounding, but often if they have issues they're not apparent until under load/heat which can't be tested for.

    You can check your error codes and reset them now with no tools at all and that's definitely the first thing to do. Try to do it tonight if you can.

    TPS could have gone bad or been knocked during service. They're known to be an issue with that bike.

    Be SURE you have the kill switch in the off/kill position when you go to diag mode!!!!! Having the kill switch to run will erase the codes when you reach d61. Go to d61 to view your error codes, if any. Wait several seconds because if there are more than one, it will flash the codes individually every 2 seconds. Write them down and consult the manual for their meaning, then address them accordingly.
  9. #9 thegutterpoet, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    I tried once, mate and had left the kill switch in the ride position, when I got to dl 61 it gave '30', then I tried it with the kill switch set to not run and d-61 gave '00'. I cleared as you suggested and checked the bike started, which it did sounding wonderful.

    The initial d-01 reading was '15'.

    Just tried it again, exactly as per your instructions

    d-01 '15'
    d62 (kill switch set to NOT RUN from start) '00'
  10. error code 15 is position sensor throttle 2 which should read between 10-24 closed and 95-109 fully opened.

    error code 30 is ignition coil cylinder 1.

    Try going for a ride and seeing what happens now that error codes are clear. The TPS can probably be adjusted back to spec which may cure the issue. Try swapping the coils and see if the error code changes. If it turns out to be a faulty coil then you can also use an R1 coil if fz1 coils are not available. Sure are a lot of smashed up R1s out there.
  11. I thought the number given by d:01 '15' was the TPS setting, which at 15 seems well within the range you mentioned.

    the '30' came up for d:61 only when I had run the routine with the kill switch set to RUN as in the bike to run.

    Both times I went through the routine with the kill switch off, d:61 gave '00'. So following your advice, the initial d:01 reads 15 - which is loosely where it should be? and the d:61 reads '00' which is no error code?
  12. Sorry mate, I've misread your original post.... must be time for a cup of coffee. You are correct in what you've understood. When you went to d:61 if you got only one error code "30" then that is the code for faulty ignition coil on cylinder 1. If there were further error codes then they would be displayed at 2 second intervals. You can reset the error codes by going to d62, and verify that they are clear by again going to d:61 (which is what youve done) and "00" means no error codes and all clear. Go for a ride and see if new error codes pop up again.

    Based on your "30" error code, try what I've said with swapping the coils and if the error code pops up again on the swapped cylinder as a faulty coil then a pretty safe bet thats your issue in which case you need a new/used coil.

    To check your TPS, go to d01 and try opening the throttle, you should see a continuous and smooth advance from between 12~21 at closed to between 96-106 fully open. you dont want to see numbers jumping all over the place.
  13. #13 thegutterpoet, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    And then I find this advice-

    ) Turn key to off
    2) Turn ignition kill switch to run
    3) Hold the select and reset button at the same time
    4) Turn the key to run
    5) Continue to hold the two buttons and count to about 10 at this point the display will show "d1"
    6) Release the two buttons
    7) Repress both buttons for 2 sec and the display will show d:01_____17

    If I do the routine with the kill switch not killing as in the bike will start if i press ignition I get this>>>
    And the two times I just tried with the kill switch off, I found D:01 at '15' and D:61 both times at '00'. The plot thickens eh?

    I will do the same diagnostics in the morning and will hope you remember to peek back here! I greatly appreciate your efforts to help. Thank you!

    I have no idea how to change a coil and worry that this could now be an expensive job?
  14. D:01 is a diagnostic for the TPS, when you enter D01 the number you get is the current TPS. in this mode starting at "15" closed is fine, the 15 is the current position and not an error code. 17 is also fine. Try twisting the throttle and the number will go up. Verify that it goes up smoothly, try wiggling the throttle especially where 4-5k would be on your bike, numbers should react smoothly. At fully open throttle it should go up to between 96-106.

    If you enter diagnostics with kill switch on, when you enter d61 the bike will erase any current errors. This is why its important to enter it with kill switch off until you get the errors and write them down. They will be displayed at 2 second intervals. If you miss them, just go back to d61 they will still be there. Once you've written them all down you can manually clear them with d62. You need to clear them for the bike to be reset, otherwise even if you fix a sensor the ECU wont want to look at it.

    The bike then wont have any errors until you take it for a ride and it finds some again. So go for a ride, see if something happens and if so recheck d61 (with kill switch off) and see what numbers you get. As I said, it sounds like coil on cylinder 1 was the culprit, but you can verify it by swapping coils onto different cylinders and seeing if the code changes to that cylinder. If you swap coils and the error comes back on cylinder 1 again then the coil is good and the wiring is at fault.
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  15. It might also be worth unplugging the speedo healer and PC V to make sure they're not the culprit.
  16. Again, I am most grateful. And other than the several attempts with the kill switch set to KILL, which showed zero error codes, all I seem to have is the one time out of three, when I tried the diagnostics with the kill switch OFF, and I found D:61 at 30. No error codes flashed up, I was glaring from close range and counted well beyond 30 seconds. Each time I tried it with KIll switch on, as in KILL, i found D:61 as '00'. Even trying the routine with kill switch set to KILL, thereafter I still found D:61 as '00'.

    I shall do as you advise in the morning. as have now danced with the vodka vixen too vibrantly to ride with so many police around after the dogs victory in the grand final.

    Yet from what I have told you, it seems that all is well with the diagnostics routine?

    Yes, I will disconnect both PC V and speedohealer on the morrow. A busy day awaits!
  17. Happy to help mate, sucks to have a big ride and problems with your bike. d61 is for error codes, and if you got "30" at d61, then 30 is the error code. Error 30 is ignition coil cylinder 1. If you set kill switch to on and go to d61 you wont get error codes, kill switch on clears error codes. You now have your errors cleared as you can see from having d61 returning 00.

    Don't bother unplugging stuff etc, go for a ride tomorrow for 15-20 min and see what happens. My guess is you'll have the same problem again. Coils tend to fail with heat. If you go for a ride and the bike heats up and starts surging, check d61 with kill switch off and you will probably find error 30 again. If that's the case then try diagnosing the coil as I suggested by swapping the coil.

    Try re reading everything we've talked about tonight too, sometimes stuff makes more sense the next day ;-)
  18. Cheers, comrade!

    I can but confirm that the only time I found the '30' with d:61 was with the kill switch on, which seems something peculiar...I shall seek further results on the morrow. Wishing you a wicked night. D
  19. That makes sense, from what I understand of the yamaha system... There are 2 ways to clear error codes. The first one is to leave kill switch on, and go to d61. Error codes will be displayed then immediately and automatically cleared. The second way is to leave kill switch off and then enter d61. Error codes will be displayed but not cleared. The advantage to leaving kill switch off is that if there are several error codes and you miss them the first time round you can go back to d61 again and see them. You can then manually clear error codes with d62.

    Now your error codes are cleared when you go for a ride errors will again be recorded. There's nothing wrong with checking error codes with the kill switch on, just be aware that if you don't see and write them down immediately then they will be cleared and you won't be able to see them again until the error occurs again. Off to bed ;-)
  20. If they changed plugs it sounds more like plugs than anything else.

    Check the coils are pushed down all the way, they can be a bit of a bastard to get on. They also need to remove the screw on tip of the plugs to fit in the coils properly.
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