Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Some ideas on where Honda is heading in 2006

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' started by rc36, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. Hands up if you'd like a V5 Sports/Tourer based on the RCV211???

    My guess is that that motor is SO good that it could be tuned to suit a number of different scenarios...

    A pure sports bike to counter the gixxers, a sports/tourer to replace the viffers a 1000 cc version to replace the Blackbird and a cruiser type bike as well.

    So nobody has built a v5 cruiser yet??? So what? Nobody had built a v5 race bike till the RCV!!!!

    Raises some fascinating possibilities doesn't it?
  2. I'm waiting with baited breath for the new viffer. I have a feeling that the bike will not be the huge departure from the VFR style that everyone believes/ hopes. They could still increase the capacity of the current block and make it a true 800 or possibly a 900cc bike.

    I doubt a V5 is on the plans but it would be an interesting development. I'm suprised no real information has come out about the bike which might suggest Honda is being so secretive as th new bike will be a stunner or that there really isn't anything to be protective over.

    Either way we will know in a few months.
  3. The Blackbird's 1137cc now. Why would they shrink it in capacity by some 12%?

    Nobody had any reason to until the GP technical rules made it worth the effort.

    As for multi-cylinder cruisers, how many Ventures did Yamaha sell in the past however many years?

    No, it doesn't, because, in a streetbike, compared to an inline motor, all a V5 offers is unnecessary complexity. Balancing, fuelling, cooling, exhaust routing, frame design... it would all become significantly more challenging, but it wouldn't offer any more performance.
  4. I read a few weeks ago in the motoring liftout from the local rag that the VTR is going to be discontinued
  5. Be pretty gutless of them if that turns out to be the case... all that bike needs is updated suspension and maybe a frame tweak or two to brings its handling along and well-mapped efi and, perhaps, some combustion chamber work to cure its high fuel consumption and get it burning cleaner to future-proof it against incoming emissions legislation. Even though the bike looks as good as it ever did, a restyle just for the hell of it might also be in order, seeing how the thing hasn't changed in eight years. Indicators integrated into the little fins below the radiator gills, a taller screen up front, a full-length bellypan a la the Power Cup BMW K1200R, a hugger and something done with the tail and the bike will continue to be the looker of the soft sportsbike bunch...
  6. Honda specialises in being secretive. After all, if you spend as much on R&D as they do, you don't want a rival manufacturer getting wind of what you are doing. However, as well as that, they have been known to release "teasers" like the concepts shown on that web site, just to guage public reaction.

    It is fairly certain that they will abandon the VTEC experiment. Sales of the new model have been disappointing compared to previous VFR's and road testers have been less than complimentary. Despite Honda's huge size, they are very sensitive to the market opinion and will no doubt take that on board in the design of the new bike.

    The possibilities of them using a V5 as a basis for a range of bikes is still a valid one. They've had 3 years now to refine the concept in GP racing and will have a whole raft of data that they can draw on if they decide to produce a similar powerplant in street guise.

    2006 promises to be very interesting.
  7. Yes, because a leak in August, 2005 about what new technology might set the 2006 model range apart from the competition would give the other manufacturers_plenty_of time to develop something to match.

    And, of course, in this, they are completely unique within the motorcycle industry.

    ...with VTEC solely to blame; Honda persistently running specials which price the 350cc-bigger Blackbird only a few hundred dollars above the VFR has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

    They've been copping a bollocking over DCBS since the system debuted on the 1993 CBR1000F. They're still persisting with it.
  8. Leave the Bird alone Honda :evil: Why try to improve something thats already perfect . :p
  9. Honda are very much a leader in technology. But i do agree why would they want to change the bird. It is a great bike, almost as good as the zx12r :D . Who knows what will be out next year, i did actually hear the busa was going to be a 1500cc.
  10. I doubt they'ed ever release a V5. The only reason they built it in the first place was to be different. At best they will prolly releas a limited edition run of them that will cost stupendous amounts of money and never actually get ridden by their status seeking owners :)

    Why would they significantly increase the capacity of the VFR? They have the blackbird to play the big-bore sports/tourer role.

    I reckon they will persist with VTEC. They are a very proud company who built their car industry on VTEC, and they no doubt want to create the link with their bikes and cars. VTEC will one day be widely accepted, and used on motorbikes(it will obviously be refined over time). For now honda gets canned for using it, one day people will look back and speak of how Honda pioneered the technology.

    DCBS only gets complained about by jurnos/racers. The latest versions have been refined to a point where they do their job admirably. Everyone I know who owns a late model VFR has nothing but prasie to lavish on DCBS.
  11. The website that spawned all this stresses that it's speculative but it's interesting to toss the ideas around.

    My guess is the Honda will do something out of left field, they do that every so often just to get up the others' noses!
  12. Because, apart from just sheer continuation of the trend for ever-larger motorcycle engines, the demographic buying middleweight sports-tourers is aging and no longer as happy to rev a bike past 7,000rpm to get anywhere as they once were; the VFR's competition, bikes like the Sprint ST and the Ducati ST3/4, with 1000cc-type midrange on offer, do that already.

    They do, but the Blackbird's also twice the VFR's size and nothing as competent handling-wise. Besides, the Blackbird is supposedly getting punched out to 1200 or 1300cc, so there'd still be the capacity differentiation between it and a big-bore VFR.

    Even if the bike VTEC is positively Cro-Magnon in comparison to the car systems and if it has the effect of choking the bike precisely where it's supposed to improve it?

    The VFR VTEC is supposed to boost bottom-end torque; you look at the dyno graph of the bike and what you see is precisely the opposite... there's a huge step-up in torque precisely where VTEC kicks in.

    For what it achieves, the current system is about three generations away from being market-ready.

    To be honest, I doubt it. By the time bike VTEC is developed sufficiently to make it worth the contrivance, active valvetrains, which are cleverer and a more complete solution to the same problem as VTEC is trying to address while simultaneously offering other benefits (no power drain on the crank, more compact than a conventional top-end...), will be coming onstream.
  13. and I was so hoping that they would come back and start producing the 750 again :(

    wishfull thinking...
  14. Provided the ideas haven't been pulled out of someone's arse, perhaps. If they're going to rabbit on about VFR's powered by 1300cc V5's they might as well have a Photochop there of a Honda hoverbike powered by an over-unity energy device...


    What they have a knack for is introducting and making a big deal of contrivances which don't work any better than the more conventional, pre-existing alternatives; pivotless frames, linked brakes, quasi-VTEC, electronically-controlled steering dampers... all pointless.

    Confining the rear shock within the swingarm, like on the CBR600RR and the UglyBlade is a useful trick, but only insofar as it makes room for an underseat exhaust.

    The headstock-routed ram-air ducting they introduced on the SP-1 is a good idea, but they've abandoned it in favour of fake meshed-over intakes on the nose of the UglyBlade.

    What have they released since the CB750 Four that could be classified as "left field"?

    For something to be "left-field", it needs to be on the level of the Yamaha GTS1000. The FireBlade wasn't left-field.

    Apart from the V-four engine, which they've themselves pretty much given up on now, Honda haven't broken_any_new ground as far as design of mainstream motorcycles is concerned...

    They weren't first with a big-bore liquid-cooled four; that was Kawasaki, with the GPz900R in 1984.
    They weren't first with a lightweight race-replica; that was Suzuki, with the GSX-R750F in 1985.
    They weren't first with a 600 race-rep; Kawasaki with the GPz600R in 1985.
    They weren't first with an alloy-beam frame; that was Yamaha, with the FZR1000 Genesis in 1987.
    Exhaust tuning valves: Yamaha again, with the FZR1000 EXUP in 1989.
    USD forks; Suzuki, GSX-R750L in 1990.
    Ram-air; Kawasaki, ZZ-R1100 in 1990.
    Integrated ignition coils; Suzuki, GSX-R750WT, 1996.
    EFI; Suzuki, TL1000S, 1997.
    Secondary throttle valves; Suzuki, GSX-R750Y, 2000.
    Variable-vacuum casting; Yamaha, YZF-R6R, 2003.
    Oval throttle bodies; Kawasaki, ZX-6R-C/-6RR-K, 2005.