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So you thought you were a luddite !

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by Mickyb V9, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. . . . I feel sorry for the Cubans !


    It would be interesting though to visit Cuba.
    Imagine a place where people are not tech-savvy, no one has a mobile, an Ipod, a gadget of some sort that we are so use to with everyday life.

    I reckon it would be a spin out !!
  2. Tasmania is closer.
  3. The last doco I saw on Cuba showed how they are still managing to keep early-sixties US cars on the road by all sorts of means; the place looks like a timewarp of Florida, circa 1960 :LOL:.
  4. I saw something like that. Hilarious to see how all those huge old US "classics" were running around powered by tiny Russian industrial engines and brake systems filled with free shampoo samples.
  5. :shock:
    Boy am I glad we are allowed to buy mobile phones and DVD players. :roll:

    communism must really suck! :?
  6. Read 'Mi Moto Fidel' by Christopher P Baker - gives you a motorcyclist's view as well as of Cuba and its people.

    I'm fascinated by the place and would love to go one day.

    :LOL: @ Devotard - true of Tassie (to a point).
  7. Or, you know, having America embargo the living shit out of you for 3 or 4 decades...
  8. There was no embargo on Russia from 1917 till the inevitable collapse of Communism, but life for the people there was just the same.

    "The Ministry of Agriculture's great scientists have produced a new, wonder-wheat, which is far better than that of the imperialistic dogs in the west...."

    "What, you say it doesn't grow, and every pest known to man eats it up in the ground?"

    "Ah, what the hell, let them starve..."
  9. Oh, I have no particular brief for communism. I agree that the experiment has failed - or rather, that the experiment has never really been tried (Russia and China were both totalitarian dictatorships just using communism as a label) and might be in principle untryable at the national scale.

    But to ascribe the situation in Cuba *solely* to Communism is to ignore the American role, which has been considerable. I did it as a bit of a throwaway line, but my point was to *add* that factor to the mix, not to substitute it for the role of communism, if that makes sense.
  10. Sure, America has exercised a very heavy hand when it comes to Cuba, as they do in most other places. (Don't mention Bay of Pigs, though :LOL:)

    It's just that having Cuba within sight of mainland USA made them particularly nervous. I remember going to school each day with the latest news reports on the Cuban Missile Crisis ringing in our ears; they were scary times, let me tell you......
  11. Yes because communism causes so much more devastation than two world wars :roll:. The Soviet Union lost nearly 14% of it's entire population (that's 23 million people) in WW2 alone - the UK lost less than 1%. This is on top of the 3.3 million killed in WW1. Even in more recent times heavy losses in places like Afghanistan and the Chechan Republic continue to have a massive affect on the country.
    There are similarities with China too given it also lost around 20 million during the second world war, which only briefly interrupted a civil war which had already been running, and continued on as soon as WW2 ended.
    Many people of English/Australian origin like to talk about the impact of WW2 or Vietnam - but really it's completely insignificant compared to what other countries have been through. Really you could just as easily argue that communism is the only reason they're doing as well as they are.
  12. You're not, of course, counting the 16 or so million of his own people slaughtered by Stalin, are you?
  13. No. Actually found some more detailed stats that also put the total loss at around 26 million. That's 7.6 million soldiers killed in combat and a further 2.6 million killed in POW camps. As for civilians 1.5 million were killed by combat, 7.1 million by Nazi genocide, 1.8 million in German labour camps, and 5.5 million of famine and disease (with an additional 1 million after the war ended).

    Deaths due to Stalin government repression were 1.7 million, so only a small part of the big picture. And the Soviets weren't alone in this regard, more than a few countries executed those deemed to have been supporting Nazi Germany in the aftermath of WW2. As for repressing political dissent I'm sure any one pro-communism living in the US during the 60's didn't exactly have a fun time either (much like anyone supporting Islam now).
  14. There is some truth in that.
    Early convicts sent to Australia were Luddite prisoners, ones who were against industrialism/mechanism and sabotaged industrial sites in Britain.

    No wonder its taken so long for Telstra to roll out the 3G/CDMA network for the bush ! :LOL: . . . its in our heritage ! :LOL:
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  17. Those links were an awesome read and they seemed to correspond with most of the things I have been reading about Cuba lately. What the US has done and is doing to that country in the way of embargos is disgusting. In fact I think the UN once said it was down right illegal but who is going to tell the 'world police' that they are wrong. The main reason that America fears Cuba's system is that it could prove to the other Latin American states that there is an alternative to depending on the US and it’s so called 'free trade' (read: rip off every country on the planet to advance its own economy).

    I have met many Americans and they are lovely people but the majority don’t know what’s happening in the world or whats going on outside of their own country thanks to the US media. They especially don't know what dirty tricks their own country gets up to or how they are perceived by the world. So many say that they were shocked by 'all this anti US sentiment that seems to have sprung up' and I just laugh and say it was always there, its just with the war on terror some Americans have actually started wondering what’s going on in the world for the first time.