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Smart Meter Madness

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Sir Ride Alot, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. #1 Sir Ride Alot, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2013
    ← Anti-Smart Meter March – 5 May

    Power Companies to Control Your appliances.

    Posted on April 22, 2013 by Stop Smart Meters Australia

    An article in the Herald Sun on Friday 12th April has caused uproar with Victorian households and angry responses in letters to the editors that followed.

    If we allow Power Companies and the Government to get there way, they will have control of your airconditioner or heater, but where does this stop.

    Can we trust this level of control in the hands of the same people whom still deny the scientific evidence that RF Devices can be harmful to Humans.

    “Manufacturers of airconditioners, water heaters, pool pumps and electric car chargers would be required to offer “smart appliances” that were capable of being “cycled” on and off during the peak demand times – with customer permission.”

    “An Equipment Energy Efficiency Committee consultation paper proposes that appliances sold after June next year have mandatory “interfaces” that could be activated to communicate with the electricity network.”

    In response to the article in the Herald Sun, Nick McCallum from Channel Seven News ran a television news segment the very same evening which featured Sonja Rutherford from the Broadmeadows Progress Association.

    The Herald Sun article can be found here.

    The Channel 7 News segment can be found here.

    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  2. They already have control.
    It is called load shedding. When the network becomes strained they begin rolling blackouts of high usage areas to stop the whole network collapsing

    This worked 25 years ago, but now as modern technology becomes increasingly reliant on power, things like telephones do not work without power. The backup battery at the exchange is no longer enough to keep communications up. When the NBN comes around this is a weakness of the fibre network.

    That is why we need a new rethink of power rationing. It is much more efficient and practical to begin shedding airconditioners alone, rather than losing total power to homes.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  3. As Killbot says load shedding is not new this just allows more fine grained control. A similar system has been running in Souh Australia for at least 18 months.

    What evidence would that be? No legitimate scientific study has shown that electrical or RF fields at the intensities found in the home cause any problems.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Ahh load shedding!! Where i'm from we normally get anywhere from 12 to 18 hrs a day with scheduled outages!! Used to drive me nuts :)
  5. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable approach to a very real problem.

    Either we have enough capacity in reserve at all times to cope with a problem that occurs once-in-a-blue moon (which means building more power plants and keeping them running at less than full efficiency even if they're not really needed), or accept that on occasion there won't be enough generation capacity available, and have the ability to turn off unnecessary "comfort" appliances so that everybody is still able to cook their dinner, see what they're doing, and potentially keep their dialysis machines or whatever else they need running - even if they are a little warmer than they might be comfortable with.

    Sometimes we need to think a little bit about what's good for society as a whole - and this seems to me to be one of those cases where a little inconvenience at the individual level can be good for the whole.

    BTW, AFAIK there's no scientifically verified evidence that low-level/non-ionising RF energy does any biological harm.. you need to either lay off the conspiracy theories or build yourself a Faraday cage and/or a lead-lined bunker so that you can live in RF-free bliss :)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. For some people "a little warmer" is deadly. How do you protect those people?
  7. I'd made the assumption that they would be able to control appliances per individual subscriber (or group of subscribers), so if you had a medical need then they would not disable. That may be incorrect though.

    Other options might be a portable A/C unit plugged into a normal power point? or a fan? or a cold bath/shower? or a trip to the local shopping center?
  8. You are purchasing something in demand. They have control of when they sell it to you. No different to having to wait for a new motorcycle because there are none in stock.

    If you want to guarantee your power supply generate it yourself.
  9. There's more info here:


    They talk about Direct Load Control Contracts (DLCC) as being something different from a standard contract, so I presume it's something that you either need to agree to, or get some benefit from signing up to. In either case I don't think that medically needy people will end up having their power cut through any sort of a load shedding system.

  10. Power is an essential service, motorcycle parts are not.

    Maybe a medical exemption 'might' work...I can't see the other options working for those people disabled by severe pain for example.
  11. Except they are not talking about turning off the airconditioner for hours. They turn it off for 10-20 minutes out of a day.
    If they can modulate when airconditioners run they can do this over a large area. So rather than 25,000 people lose total power for 2 hours, 4,000 people at a time lose their airconditioner for 20 minutes.
  12. #12 gundy, Apr 24, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
    This whole thing seems long in hyberbole and short in substance.. The article linked to says it itself - selective disabling of appliances IS GOING TO BE OPTIONAL.. And it's for the greater good. I cannot fathom the issue here.

    And.. goddamn that site that SRA linked to before is full of nut-jobs who seem to be feeding off each others paranoia..

    ZOMG! Electrical wiring produces electro-magnetic fields? Quick! Somebody call Captain Obvious.. or maybe call Hans Christian Ørsted's familyand let them know that there's been additional independent verification of his 1820 discovery.

    Most of the rest of the posts there seem similarly paranoid and uneducated.

    It shits me when people clearly don't understand what they're talking about, but are afforded just as much (or more) air-time than people who do. And they don't have the background to discern bollocks from reality. And any smack-down based on evidence and/or sound logical reasoning is taken as some sort of conspiracy. Grrrr..
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Sorry, I also wanted to post that there are a bunch of double-blind studies that demonstrate that people who claim EMF hypersensitivity are, in reality, not as hypersensitive as they claim.

    eg. from pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19551766
    or: http://www.skepdic.com/electrosensitives.html

    I'm not saying that everyone on that site is lying about what they're experiencing, but, I suspect that there a variety of (mundane) explanations for a lot of their symptoms that don't require involvement of teh nasty EMFs..
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. No health issues? I suggest you do some more research although health is only one of the issues. Also there are councils who are against these things and there a few individuals that have absolutely cleaned up. Cha Ching!
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. We have done research in reputable peer reviewed publications. No serious evidence exists regarding any danger in low level non ionising radiation.

    Smart meters are a tool that allows a lot of network information to be gathered to make efficiency savings for us all in the operation of the electricity network.

    Regarding electricity supply to those who have medical requirements, the electricity authorities have had long term procedures in place to protect those people. I have worked in the industry and electricity feeders that had hospitals or registered people with life support systems were marked for first recovery in emergency or not to be load shed. The Smart meter shedding system allows much finer gain control allowing electricity suppliers to protect the grid while still protecting those with special requirements. If anything it makes them safer.

    You need to separate the genuine engineering benefits of smart meters from the profiteering that has taken place though successive government mismanagement of privatization.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. The research is already out there. The trouble is, and this is what I was saying above, is that it can be hard for an uneducated person to distinguish genuine research published by genuine scientists, from the garbage spewed forth by the crackpots and charlatans of the world.

    There's also the problem of cognitive dissonance.. there's an inbuilt inertia behind peoples beliefs, and they will generally be more willing to accept information that reinforces their existing world view (even if that information is scientifically invalid). Basically, it's hard to get people to change their minds; particularly if they're not used to dealing with conflicting information in a scientifically honest way.

    I noticed in the comments section of the page that you linked to that someone had quoted a page from the WHO (World Health Organisation) here: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs193/en/:

    Of course, what they failed to mention was the "possibly" just means that it hasn't been conclusively ruled out - in a similar way to how it's possible that Loch Ness contains a monster. Possibly doesn't mean "probably", even though some people seem to want it to. I also noticed that the commenter failed to quote another section from further down the same page:

    If you're going to quote something as supporting your cause, it behooves you to read and understand the entire article before selectively quoting it.

    Show me peer reviewed research, published in a high impact factor journal that definitively proves a causal relationship between RF exposure and the kind of illnesses that your linked site claims, and I give you a guarantee that I'll filter it through my cognitive biases, look for corroborating or dissenting evidence, and consider adding it to my accumulated world-view :)
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. Like I said health is only one issue. For me it is because I don't want one and that is enough. My power company keeps asking me why I do not want one but I will not provide them with a reason as I do not have to.
  18. They probably don't _have_ to supply you with electricity either. For example I'm sure that they could disconnect you if the wiring at your premises didn't meet their requirements..

    Seriously though, it seems like a pretty childish thing to do; vetoing the upgrade just because you can.

    If it's not for any kind of well-founded rational reason, and, lets be honest, "I don't want one" isn't the strongest of well reasoned arguments, then I can only assume it's some kind of an attempt to assert control/dominance and/or jerk them around just because you can. If true, that's kind of sad.

    If you're buying into the "electromagnetism kills" nut-jobbery, then I'd disconnect the coils from your motorbike (good luck pushing it around), toss out your cellphone, turn off your wifi, and turn your house into a faraday cage before I started worrying about the incremental impact that a smart meter might have on your life.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. They are required by law to supply electricity. I do not let any Joe Blo that comes to my house do whatever they like especially when there is no benefit from the crap they are selling. The only nut cases here are the power companies.

    If you want one that's fine it's your choice but you make some stupid statements. I haven't given any argument yet that does not stop you imagining things and covering your arse by starting the statements with "If".

    That is sad.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. #20 коннор, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
    What's wrong with starting things with "if"? For example:

    if Crackpot == 1
    if Poster == Sir_Ride_Alot
    	  Crackpot = 1
    • Funny Funny x 3