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Sick of hearing how motorcyclists are 38 times more likely than motorists to be seriously injured or

Discussion in 'Research, Studies, and Data' at netrider.net.au started by agro, Jul 2, 2010.

  1. Well, here's another report to add to the mix....(it's a 3.1mb pdf)
    Some of it flies in the face of what's been posted on here in recent days.....:-k

    Also interesting that the media release for the report quoted this: "Motorcyclists are 23 times more likely to be killed on the road than car drivers"
  2. Well, there's statistical evidence: Right hand bends are harder. ;)

    (Single-vehicle bike accidents: 34% right hand bend, 23% left hand bend)

    4% of people are abducted by space aliens while overtaking, just like in the TAC advert.
  3. The fact is 4 times less motorcyclists have died on Victorian roads this year compared with all other road users. Motorcyclists are one of the safest road user groups in Victoria.

    33 motorcyclists
    131 other road users
  4. Nice try, there are a lot less bikes on the road than cars & trucks though.....
  5. I have been to a lot of funerals for good freinds of mine. This is how they rate:

    Suicide: 5
    Motorbike Accidents: 3
    Car crash: 1

    Add to that a couple of natural deaths due to medical issues.

    I am 33. Figure those stats out.
  6. you need to hang around happier friends..
  7. that was a good read, at least now I understand how they got there statistic
  8. Sorry to Say Agro, but 23 is considered a relatively accurate statistic.
    But also remember that on these very forums there are people who have never binned a bike in 30+ years of riding... And others that have binned 3 bikes before they get off there restrictions...
    So the question is how to make that 30+ years... And keep going
  9. Great question F-L, and that's what we need to focus on.
  10. Not any more :p
  11. The devil is in the details. They make a big show of saying that the number of motorcycle deaths as a proportion of total vehicle fatalities is increasing - but they don't correct for the increasing proportion of motorcycles in the vehicle fleet.

    It is only on page 15 that we see this:

    So, though the total number of fatalities is indeed increasing, the number of fatalities per registered bike is decreasing. And the proportion of fatalities due to motorcycle accidents is increasing, but not at the rate that the proportion of motorcycles in the overall vehicle fleet is increasing.

    It is also worth looking at page 29, where they define "excessive speed".

    Of course, they don't give a break down of how many people who crashed were actually speeding. Instead, they use the circular argument we've all heard before, where by the speed is deemed to have been excessive because the rider lost control of the vehicle. In other words, if you crash, your speed must have been excessive - because if you had been going more slowly you would have seen the oil/water/kangaroo/branch/gravel and been able to avoid it.

    The take home message? Bikes are dangerous, and if you crash it is your fault because you were going too fast - even if you were well within the speed limit.
  12. Zenali, we can't have it both ways. We say that we want higher speed limits because we ride to the conditions, yet when the police say excessive speed is a cause, we complain too. If I come off on a corner and I am under the speed limit, almost by definition I was going too fast for the prevailing conditions, therefore my speed was excessive.

    In 27yrs of riding, I have had my share of spills. In only one of them can I truly say that my only contribution to the accident was waking up in the morning. It's that brutal honesty that we ALL need to adopt in order to learn from our mistakes and improve.
  13. Cejay, I agree with what you are saying. I think that some speed limits - like the 110 on the Calder Freeway or sections of the Hume - could safely be lifted. But in other cases the advisory signs are sufficient to warn drivers and riders that they should slow down for a corner. (They could be assigned more consistently, but that is another matter.)

    What I don't like is the way that 'going too fast for a corner' is linked to 'hooning' by virtue of the catch-all label of excessive speed. It is practically tautological. You came off because of your excessive speed. How do you know it was excessive speed? Because you came off. While I agree that the proximate cause is a speed inappropriate for the conditions, it may be rider error, or poor judgment, or inexperience, that lead the rider to enter a corner at a speed too great for his or her level of skill.

    By focusing on a weighted term like 'excessive speed', it makes it sound as though the rider was blazing along with blatant disregard for life and limb. That might not be the case at all. In fact the rider might have approached a corner at 60 kph in a 100 zone, only to find a spray of gravel across the road. When it is reported by the police, what the media hear is 'excessive speed', and what Joe Public hear is 'motorcycle hoon'.

    I would argue that we should be focusing on the skills needed to evaluate a corner and correctly judge an appropriate speed, rather than wave the 'speed kills' banner and tell people that they just should stop riding.
  14. I agree with you, it's just that we also should remember that 60kmh could still be excessive for the conditions. Where I am totally with you is this linkage of the word hoon and accidents.
  15. statistically, it's not very safe to be friends with TRA.
  16. so what? you are still "x" times more likely to be killed in a motorcycle accident than in a car accident; the figure is irrelevant, you're still dead.
  17. You're right that it isn't relevant when you're dead.

    It is relevant when policy makers start down the path "motorcyclists are x times more likely to be killed and 100% of motorcycle accidents involve excessive speed... so we need to get bikes off the road and / or slow them down for their own good"

    Bad justification for bad policy is a bad outcome.
  18. You guys are close but you've missed it. The issue is speed but it's not about outright speed, it's about relative speed.

    Let's pick a scenario. The road is posted as an open speed limited road set at 100k/ph. The corner is signed at a recommended 45k/ph.

    Rider (A) goes around the corner at 90k/ph easily and safely with plenty left up their sleeve.

    Rider (8) goes around the same corner at 70k/ph but something spooks them and they wobble off the road and crash into a tree.

    Vicpol says that rider (8) was going too fast because they crashed, that's all the evidence they need, case closed, next! When in actual fact it had more to do with lack of experience or skill. Something which is much harder to define.

    I propose that we visit crash sites where Vicpol believe speed was a factor. The po-po will need to nominate the speed they believe the rider was traveling at when the accident occurred. If we can get ten bikes to go through the corner at or above their nominated speed then they have to strike that off the record as being a factor. Wadda ya reckon? :-w
  19. I just woke up and so my brain's a little fuzzy, but if I remember rightly the Hurt Report examined just this. Although not tackled in quite that method.

    From memory, in 70% of single-vehicle accidents on corners, the motorcycle could have made it around that corner at that speed in those conditions. It was suggested that other factors, such as the rider panicking and becoming fixated on a roadside object or simply failure to believe they could make the corner at that speed, which resulted in them either running wide or deliberately standing hte bike up to do an emergency stop which runs them off the road.
  20. Spot on Spots, thanks mate :)

    Don't suppose anybody can get their hands on a copy of the Hurt report mentioned above and send it to me?