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Setting corner speed

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by VCM, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. Not sure if this should be in the 'General' section but here goes..
    Been slowly increasing my cornering speeds on some local roads in the hope that I'll gain more skill in setting entry / exit speeds.
    I started out using the posted speed limit ( those yellow signs ) as a rule of thumb for entry speed. Slowly increasing it by 5 km increments.
    On my way to and from work there two in particular I have been working with:
    (1) a short 50km 'S- bend'


    (2) a 75km righthander ( left hander on the way to work )

    I've gotten to the point where I can enter the 50ker @ 65k, the 75ker @ 100km. ( more confidently when its a lefty) basically a 30% increase.
    The other day I hit the 50k S-bend ( right-hander first ) doing 80k :shock:
    Don't ask why .. :roll:
    Anyway I found myself running wide, and could not seem to tighten my line enough, and as a result was inches from running off the road. :shock: Basically I don't think I flicked the bike quick enough ( used the same rate as I would approaching it at 65k )
    My questions here are:
    (A) Is there a reasonably safe rule of thumb for setting entry speeds based on suggested limits? Or is there a better way ?

    I also have a question regarding THIS turn:
    RH DR

    I find myself making mid corner corrections frequently here. How would one approach and execute this ( decreasing radius? ).

  2. Hmm corner speed signs :LOL:

    When you get some more experience, and you have sorted your cornering out 40 - 60% above those signs is achievable, or even higher :)

    I did say when you have more experience etc [ before I get flamed for my comment :p

    Without going for a ride with you and sitting behind to watch your 'line' I can only guess as to what your doing.
    Perhaps another friendly NR that has the experience can do a ride with you ? I know when I was In melb, I quiet often helped out newbies sort out problems in a small group or one on one. :)

    Now where was I ? oh yeah :LOL: Sometimes just thinking through can help you sort out where your going wrong.

    How are you setting up for the corner? You say you are regularly having to adjust your line.
    Are you looking completely through the corner? or just as far as the apex?
    I know it's hard at first but are you relaxed? Tensing up can hinder the natural semi counter steering action though a corner.

    When all else fails, trust the bike and LEAN HARDER or a quick harder counter steer WILL tip the bike in harder for you :LOL:

    Do you understand the principles of counter steering and how/why it works?

    Now go think about it and give us some answers :p


    Ps: your problem could also be as simple as ...... your concentrating too hard on your speed/speedo and its stuffing up everything else.
  3. I'd have to say I've got a pretty good grip on things such as C/Steering & Lines mate. I am at the stage where I am putting it into practice what I know. :wink:
    As for the mid-corner correction, I believe it's a decreasing radius ( or perhaps a double apex ) ? That map is incorrectly drawn, but using street view you will see that even if you left your turn late, you have no exit in sight until mid-way through. At a slow pace ( speed limit) I am ok .. one steering input all the way around. Up the pace however, and I cannot seem to get through without additional steering input. If it works at a slower pace, shouldn't it be fine with a little more speed?

    :shock: You may have something there Bob :-k
  4. Well At least I got you thinking now :)

    Ah I see now :) Um in a word "no" :) as your speed increases your cornering also has to get more aggressive (for want of a better word) everything is happening faster, even a modest '85km' posted corner needs a lot more lean at for example 140kph ( only for instructive purposes :twisted: ) than at 85kph. It just the physics at play.

    When you say your adjusting through the corner...... are you just changing your lean angle or changing your line ?
  5. So I may be not agressive enough turning at higher speeds.
    On that last corner, I am changing lean angles once I have the exit in sight in order to position the bike where I want to be and not go wide. Setting my line on entry is difficult because I cannot see the exit... hope this makes sense
  6. Bingo :cool: :LOL:

    Changing lean angle at higher speeds is quiet normal :)

    Its only when you have to totally change your line, is when it becomes " I stuffed that one" :LOL:

    Rule of thumb is enter as wide as possible, on the bigger sweepers keep the throttle twisted :twisted: and change lean as required :)

    I think your seeing a problem that isn't :)
    Stop looking at your speedo and start enjoying more LOL
    One day you'll get through and then glance down and say holy F*** did I just go through at that speed ? :wink:
  7. Hit the Great Ocean Road. About a bazillion turns there will quickly sort out your cornering in about 30 minutes of intensive effort.

    It's also a ship load of fun. :grin:
  8. Thanks for the replies Guys :)
    Just to clarify ...
    I always ride at my own pace and I don't feel I need to speed for the sheer hell of it ( well not often anyway :wink:
    My focus on speed in corners ( BTW I only look at the speedo just before entry ) is soley to work on my 'fear' leaning into corners.
    cornering at low speeds obviously does not require much lean, so in order to practice on my way to work and back, I have been slowly increasing my speed and lean angles at the same corners.
    The spur, or the GOR would be an ideal place to work on my cornering, but I don't get up there as often as I'd like, so in the mean time I try to practice on my daily commute to work.

    Is this what you'd call a 'double-apex' ? If so .. then am I correct in adjusting lean angle mid-way?

  9. Vinnie I'd love to have a ride with you one day :)

    Aside from the mechanical aspects of cornering which have endless possabilities depending on endless combinations, whatever your comfort level is it should always have a margin for error as well.

    Its true, on a bike you should be able to corner much quicker than the advisory signs but that "all depends".

    As an example, The Great Alpine Way has in my opinion very "conservative" corner advice but I can name many corners on other roads where the advised is closer to my limits.

    So just because you (or anyone else) can get through a set at +50% that doesnt mean you can ad that to every corner you come to.

    By all means practice the mechanics but keep some up your sleeve.
  10. Thanks Chris, I'll keep that in mind :)
    PS: re: organising a ride, I'd be stoked. Must organise it sometime in the next few months.
  11. Vinnie the faster you go, the faster / more efficient your steering input needs to be. Get those forearms parallel with the road and push.

    Your SR's are prolly amped, which is making you stiffer than you realise. This will interfere with the bike.

    Do the chicken wings and remember to relax. If you're not getting off the bike, then grip the tank with your knees and take the weight off the bars. Don't forget all that looking through and other good throttle stuff. Good luck mate!
  12. I don't think so.

    Generally they're reliable (but it'll vary person to person, vehicle to vehicle)... But that's something you'll have to teach yourself through practice. And the advisory doesn't describe the shape or camber of the corner. Better to use it as a very basic suggestion and use your road-reading skills to see what really needs to happen.

    One issue, too - Generally they're reliable, but every now and then I'll discover a corner which really is exactly as advertised. When you consider some of the "rules of thumb" people use (eg: 1.5x, 2x the advisory), that could result in one hell of a mess if they don't reassess the corner with their own eyes.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Vinnie i'm +1 with Bob there too on having to adjust a little more as the pace of corners quickens. I'm at the stage where like you i'm looking to increase my performance in-through-out of corners, last ride out with Rob and Cam I totally ignored the speedo until corner exit, I was focussed on the tips Rob has made in his reply to you, and basically found myself less distracted by unecessary nuances and more in tune on conering technique priorities.

    Another bit of advice i read in these forums, trust your tyres ..... something I need to improve :oops:

    Would gladly join you on a ride one weekend mate ;)
  14. Vinnie, turn 2 of phillip island is a double apex. Youtube has plenty of vid of people going around it.

    time for a ride i think. after dinner one night this week sound good? daylight savings FTW!
  15. Thanks again for the advice Guys....
    As usual, it's given me a better perspective of what I should be doing.

    SHEPPO: .. I'm off to the Gold Coast for a week on Wed, but I'll take a rain check if it's ok :)
  16. Ewwww. Getting a feel for setting corner speed has absolutely nothing to do with your speedo. On unfamiliar roads take it by feel with more room for error. On very familiar roads or a track if you start looking at the road and not the speedo, you will be consistent within 1km/hr, more accurate than a speedo anyway.
  17. ah vinnie, i am just up the road from those 50km/hr "s" and yes, once you have mastered cornering that section you can make it through safely at least at double the advisory sign and add 20 (so i have been told) :wink:

    Advisory signs are great for a quick reference as to what the corner is doing, but being able to associate a corner to one you know ie.see what the corner looks like/road camber etc, can you see through it (as you approach it), tree lines etc means you know how a certain corner looks feels so you apply how you would normally ride around that corner to the one you are coming up too/approaching.
  18. First;y mate...word of warning...you can't trust the posted speeds signs...only use them as an indication of what kind of corner you might be approaching...Having saud that...you know these two corners, so it's a "controlled environment"...no probs.

    There's a few reasons you might have ran wide...increased speed is increased lean and you are'nt used to that much lean...what you thought was enough counter-steering based on what you are used to, was'nt.

    And there is a fair chance that as you started to run wide, you tensed up, and your other arm actually prevented you from countersteering more. You may also have strted looking at the danger zone and tooki your eyes off where you were going. You'll know ifr any of those things ring true. :)

    As for that big sweeper...it's almost a straight...hard to actually treat it as a turn unless you are travelling pretty fast, methinks. Maybe don't think of it, so much as a turn, and more of a general change of direction. :) :)

    Give me a yell via PM, Vinnie...sounds like it might be time to get together again mate. :)

  19. #20 VCM, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    Devo: I guess it all boils down to getting that 'feel' right eh

    Stewy: Silly as it seems, I am determined to 'master' that one. The fact that it's only a small detour on my way to work each day makes for frequent practice. :p

    John: That'd be great, I was actually hoping to hit the spur this weekend .. but alas ..family comittments :roll: and this week we're off to the Gold Coast. Shall PM you soon mate Thx
    I have that turn on youtube, it's at the 34sec mark.
    ( thinking it'd be best to judge it by seeing actual footage )
    My speed has increased since then, but you can see the additional steering inputs I make
    Opinions would be appreciated