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Security Bag Check

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Zealt, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. I know this has been covered before because I've posted about it before, but today was just too good not to share.

    I'm hunting for some photo frames for some drawings I've done for a friends birthday and during my hunt today i went in to Big W, Kmart and Target.

    I took my backpack with me as i usually do so i can draw when i feel like it and have been in to many shops like these multiple times before, I get asked about a 1/3rd of the time to open it up most of the time i just say "Nope" and keep walking ignoring the protests from the teen, ethnic or elderly security lady but today as I walked out of Big W in Foresthill shopping center the Indian/Packi guy followed me out asking to check my bag.

    He's saying "Excuse me can i check your bag?" "Nope" I say, so the guy comes with me telling me i have to show him, i tell him that i don't and its my right to privacy, then he puts his hand on my chest to try to stop me from walking off, he comes with me about 20M facing me walking backwards about a foot in front of me breathing in my face and the occasional bit of spittle as he spoke, so I give him the get your F*&king hands off me look (it helps being 6'3 and 90 semi fit kilos) then he moves out of the way and I pass, he grabs my bag, I tell him hes not allowed to touch me or my bag (as a security guard friend told me, this true VIC?), he agrees and lets go then i walk off again but he comes with me saying "Come with me to information and we will call security" I smile at him and say "Mate, I'm going to target" then he says he going to call security anyway, i point out that hes abandoned his post as im about to walk in to Target he sighs, looks back with a worried look on his face then heads back off to work, which is about 120M away by now.

    Other then this one the security guard at JB at Knox followed me about 15M saying "Excuse me sir, excuse me sir, excuse me sir"..

    I've had old ladies telling me "No worries I just have to ask or i get fired" so i think this guy just took it a bit too far, maybe he didn't like someone ignoring his authority he thought he had.

    If they asked me before i walked in that i would be required to show the content of my bag when leaving i would say no and then they rightfully could refuse me entry. Until they do this i will refuse to show the content of my bag (Unless its a girl asking and she is cute)
  2. I have heard it is legal not to have to show your bag to someone asking for you to do this. i believe only the police can search, examine etc.

    you obviously hadn't stolen anything but i'd say since you hadn't "taxed" anything why not show the guy and make his life/job a little easier?

    the indian security guard at JB Hi-Fi near me at warringah mall always asks. and i am always happy to show him i haven't stolen anything ( except oin some super deals i have bought there ).

    they can call the police and then you would have to show etc but it seems a hassle for the cops, you and the store to have to go through this. police time wasted so.... :?: :roll:

    up to you....
  3. Yeah but... but... but then he wouldn't have a thread to show how cool he is.

    Oh but if the Indian guy had been a cute girl he wouldn't have anything to post about either... Hmm. How stupid.

    Go Zealt! fcuk the system dude!
  4. I'm same, totally depends what mood I'm in whether I'll open a bag or not.

    Fight the Power! :LOL:
  5. Go zealt....

    If a security guard asks to check my bag I usually say "why do you want to search my bag, are you accusing me of theft? Because if you are I can sue you for that"
  6. http://www.afp.gov.au/business/businesses/robbery_and_theft/bag_checking_and_searching.html

    Bag checking and searching

    There is currently no specific legislation dealing with business owners rights to check customer's bags or search a person. However, you can set conditions of entry. These conditions can include presenting bags, parcels, cartons, or containers for checking by staff.

    One method of displaying conditions of entry is using prominently displayed notices that clearly set out conditions of entry. The notices must be as large as practicable and displayed at a point where they can be seen clearly prior to entry to the business.

    Customers entering a business that has prominently displayed the conditions of entry imply they have accepted or consented to the conditions of entry.


    Carrying out bag checks

    * All bags, parcels, cartons or containers of sufficient size to be able to conceal item/s may be checked.
    * Any request to check bags should be polite and courteous.
    * Any checks conducted should be made to minimise the degree of intrusion.
    * Staff should request that the customer personally open the bag.
    * Staff should not physically touch the customer or bag at any time.
    * If an object obstructs the view into the bag, staff may ask the customer to remove the obstruction. Staff should not touch the obstruction themselves.

    What to do if a customer refuses to have their bag checked?

    In a situation where a customer refuses to have their bag checked as specified in the conditions of entry:

    * request that the customer speak to the manager about the conditions of entry.
    * explain the conditions and point out the signs outlining the condition of entry.
    * once you have explained the conditions, ask again to check the bag.
    * do not enter into arguments over checking any bags or suspected theft.

    You cannot detain someone just because they have refused to let you check their bags. You must have reasonable grounds for detaining them.

    knowing that Big W does have a sign i guess they have the right so to speak :)
  7. Only the police have the authority to detain a person and to search property.
  8. I never show them the contents of my bag either.

    In order to search you they must have "finds committing#". In other words they need to ensure that you have actually taken something with the intention to deprive them of the item by not paying for it.

    The signs are all different and can be read differently.

    The example shown here states that you agree to present the bag for inspection. To me, as I walk out of the store they have inspected my bag by them visually looking at it. It at no stage mentions that you will present the bag and it's contents for inspection.

    If "Hunji" had have placed his hand on my chest, I would have stopped and asked him if he had finds committing and in the same breath would have called the police and had him charged with false arrest. You are effectively under arrest if you are asked to stop (arrest your movement).

    Loss prevention is best left to the experts and not to some uni student trying to make ends meet.

    Cute girl or not, I don't allow them to check my bags.

    Even the little hottie at Bunning Nunawading didn't get a look in my bag a few years ago ;)

    #taken from the Crimes act, 1958 below. This section talks about arrest.

    Crimes Act 1958 - SECT 458
    Person found committing offences may be arrested without warrant by any person
    458. Person found committing offences may be arrested without warrant by any
    (1) Any person, whether a member of the police force or not, may at any time
    without warrant apprehend and take before a bail justice or the Magistrates'
    Court to be dealt with according to law or deliver to a member of the police
    force to be so taken, any person-
       (a)  he finds committing any offence (whether an indictable offence or an
            offence punishable on summary conviction) where he believes on
            reasonable grounds that the apprehension of the person is necessary
            for any one or more of the following reasons, namely-
       (i)  to ensure the appearance of the offender before a court of competent
       (ii) to preserve public order;
       (iii) to prevent the continuation or repetition of the offence or the
            commission of a further offence; or
       (iv) for the safety or welfare of members of the public or of the offender;
       (b)  when instructed so to do by any member of the police force having
            power under this Act to apprehend that person; or
       (c)  he believes on reasonable grounds is escaping from legal custody or
            aiding or abetting another person to escape from legal custody or
            avoiding apprehension by some person having authority to apprehend
            that person in the circumstances of the case.
    (2) For the purposes of paragraph (a) in subsection (1) offence means offence
    at common law or a contravention of or failure to comply with a provision of
    an Act of Parliament and unless otherwise by Act of Parliament expressly
    provided does not include a contravention of or failure to comply with a rule
    regulation by-law or other law made under an Act of Parliament.
    (3) A person who has been apprehended without warrant pursuant to the
    provisions of paragraph (a) in subsection (1) in respect of any offence
    punishable on summary conviction (not being an indictable offence punishable
    summarily) and taken into custody shall be held in the custody of the person
    apprehending him only so long as any reason referred to in the said paragraph
    for his apprehension continues and where, before that person is charged with
    an offence, it appears to the person arresting that person that the reason no
    longer continues the person arresting that other person shall, without any
    further or other authority than this subsection, release that person from
    custody without bail or cause him to be so released and whether or not a
    summons has been issued against him with respect to the offence alleged.
  9. Wow... thanks for sharing... your not related to this cool cat are you?

  10. Incorrect. See my post above.
  11. This "citizens arrest" theory is a worry. It works on paper and probably was ok in 1958 but I have my doubts now....just ask Slater and Gordon.
  12. Not at all. I've used it before to arrest offenders both whilst on duty and whilst not. However, it's the softcock magistrates that makes a mockery of the law.
  13. In this world of cameras and detectors - why are there still people checking bags? Should simply be a security person acting on evidence.
  14. Feck me, sounds like the blokes just doing his job.Give the guy a break, what are you hiding? gay p0rn, stolen goods. Its an absolute travesty that he tried to steal 4 seconds of your time.

    I wonder how much gets added to items to re coup theft. If bag searches at the front deter this then im only happy to oblidge and imo hardly worth protesting.
  15. Vic, a true story.
    A mate of mine was "arrested" by a citizen wearing a security uniform. To put a long story short my mate suffered from degenerative hearing disorder which gave him slurred speech and poor balance which made him looked pissed. He was confronted by a security guard at a KMart store and asked not to enter while intoxicated. My mate refused and a incident occured. KMart and the guard were sued. KMart paid out big time and the guard lost his house and job.
    So much for citizens arrest.
  16. If you know your rights and the legalities involved you can arrest someone.

    As for checking bags, say no if you don't feel like it. Also if you let them check it and they put their grubby paws all over your belongings they can get in a whole tuft of poo aswell.

    Rent a cop loss prevention sucks, the most fun you will have in security is working at a university college! :cool:

    I often fantasize about going back to my old job despite the nighthawk hours entirely due to the awesomeness of patrolling and meeting some... ahem... interesting university students. :grin:

    and before the wowser brigade kicks off.... I didn't do anything whilst on the job!!! Nothing wrong with meeting someone outside of work hours :wink:
  17. Ya big homo, you gotta live babeeeeeeeeeee, ya gotta live :grin:
  18. Sounds like a bad call from the guard.
  19. Hence why, any such action must be accompanied by the smell of alcohol, i.e. stinking like a brewery/still.

    And the onus is on the guard/person to see the act happening. Working in a bottle shop every few shifts I get some degenerate f*ck trying to pinch something.

    Also, I believe that you are allowed to detain someone using reasonable force, once announcing intent to arrest. (Correct me on this, Vic et. al.?)

    In short, then run, you can hold them, they start swinging, you swing back. They wouldn't give a fcuk about you, so why you about them? Bloody scum.

    And, where the odd person doesn't want to comply with the conditions of entry, they are politely told to fcuk off and not come back. :) Two way street. (And, under common law - the "reasonable man", you can't claim you didn't see the sign.)
  20. That's prob the case but in todays climate of litigation you better be a million percent correct (and even then your not safe) or you could be in real deep sh*t.... which begs the question, why would you risk your house/career/savings on a $29.95 bottle of cheap scotch which isn't yours anyway?