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Scrap the Q-ride system!! [QLD]

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by arsenalroc, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. to my fellow QLders, donn't you think its time to scrap the q-ride system for a far more safer system of learning?



    To non-qlders, q-ride is our system where if you have your open car licence, you can get a full bike licence :shock:
    and the training is not regulated in any way- there are minimum guidelines and most places that train, also sell bikes

    it is quite shocking how easy it is to get your licence. when ,I got my licence( probationary, i am still on my car Ps) i was so unconfident that i redid the course at another training centre. I could not even change gear properly or countersteer and they still passed me the first time!

    I propose dedicated training facilities with strict guidelines. While i acknowledge that it wont prevent SMIDSYs or stupid driving, it will go along way to reduce single vehicle accidents

    The GC bulletin is anti-motorcycle in some ways but this article does make sense

    http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2007/12/05/5681_gold-coast-news.html

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. I think Q-ride is a brilliant system.

    Rider attitude could do with some adjustment in alot of cases. Usually in single vehicle M/cycle accidents, it will be rider error that is the cause, not the system that gave them the license.
     
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  3. Whats wrong with getting a full licence straight away.
    I and my mates went straight from nothing to 1000cc bikes, no problems no issues.
    The bike doesn't define the ride its the rider themselves.
    Tweet is right, its all attitude.
     
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  4. Unfortunately the Q-Ride system is, like the OP said, too open for abuse by dodgy training providers. The Q-Ride was initiated by a guy (forgot his name) from Morgan & Wacker's because there wasn't any competency-based licensing system. He had been lobbying for the concept for a long time before it finally got approved - so it's not like Morgan & Wacker suddenly decided on this. I think the lobby wasn't even a 'M&W initiative' - just his.

    Basically his idea was sound - the traditional quick 'riding skills' test (much like the driving test) doesn't really allow the assessor to get a good understanding of the riders' true skills. This is similar to problems with the driving test - put it simply, believe it or not, some of those jerks with unbelievably bad driving skills actually PASSED their driving tests at some point!

    The Q-Ride concept tries to address this by putting the power of assessing back into the trainers' hands - people who know their student's skills best. They ARE somewhat standardised - there are a lot of skill sets that the students need to display before the trainers are allowed to let them pass.

    When I did my Q-Ride I did it with M&W simply because a few riders have recommended them to me, and they have a reputation for being 'honest'. Their training division has nothing to do with their retail division - they don't try to sell anything there at all (the shop is not even in the same side of Brisbane). I've heard that places like Stay Upright is also really good.

    They didn't let me pass easily, in fact I did a bit more hours than the standard '2 days' of training because I wasn't very confident the 2nd day due to riding in the rain.

    In saying that, I've heard of some dealerships who provide training and give out licenses like lollies. They don't even take care of their gears (ie. the jacket, gloves, helmets to lend to students) as they just want to get as many through as possible. They don't put much emphasis on safety etc, just the basics on how to pass the test. :shock:

    So, I think the Q-Ride system has good points in it - however in its current form it is too open for abuse. It's very hard to see how it could be fixed - it is standardised already. If anything, it's no different from the normal tests except for the fact that some trainers have conflict of interests.

    I heard that there is actually a system already in place whereby motorbike accidents data are recorded for survey purposes, and one of the things that they keep track of is where the riders had their trainings from. Apparently some Q-Ride providers have extremely high percentages of accident victims compared to others. Then again, as with every accident, it's not always necessarily the riders' fault so this data may be useless.

    I'll get off the soapbox now :p
     
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  5. IF it was a Q ride thing a lot more riders in Qld would be getting killed than other states, and they're not.

    It's universal.. it's the person on the bike.

    I read numerous threads on here about I've been riding a month and I've crashed my bike etc etc.. and they're certainly not queenslanders.

    As for the instigator of the thread, two options, do a course so you feel safer or simply do not ride.

    If you feel the Q ride training you got was inadequate, report them, that will be a lot more productive than starting a thread in a Victorian based forum where most of them don't know what Q ride even is.

    Sorry Rant over.
    btw 4 people I know of got killed in the last few days, 3 had been riding many years (the 4th i don't know about), one I knew personally, it can happen to anyone at anytime.
     
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  6. Just to clarify, you must have an open cage licence for THREE years before being able to go through Q-Ride to get a full open licence. Also, with the introduction of new regulations for getting a cage licence in Qld, by the time you get to Q-Ride, you've logged at least 100 hours as a cage learner, plus 12 months on P's in a cage.

    Regardless of perceived rider ability, I don't agree with being able to get a full open licence after doing a three-day course. I think you should be able to go straight to an open restricted (250) licence, and then upgrade to a full open licence after 12 months.

    Mrs Tree and I both went through Q-Ride. We did a one-day course to get our open restricted licences. It should be noted that there was only three of us out of ten who passed the course in one day, the others had to return.

    I would be interested to see how many of the 70 riders killed in Qld this year were new riders, how many of them were Q-Ride attendees and, most importantly, how many of them were at fault in the accident that killed them.
     
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  7. And that's the issue - Qld really does have a higher fatality rate per head and it's been proportionately more than other states. But without real statistics you can't really give a reason - whether it's training & licensing, general attitudes - or maybe Queenslanders just ride more? Are these crashes occurring on large bikes, small bikes or scooters? No-one knows?

    At fault crashes may be an issue, but it might also be that better training and more experience might have prevented some of those deaths as well. Experience in judging situations can often keep you from being killed by other people too.

    Ultimately though good statistics and information is needed before we can get really good policies. At present no state is really getting this, we're not getting accurate information on crash locations in some cases - certainly not on engine capacities, rider experience, protective clothing etc. etc. It's now become a major safety priority to get this information to make sure that new regulations etc. are really evidence based. It certainly is on the VMAC agenda and being pushed by the rider and industry reps.
     
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  8. Without Q-ride I would have passed my P's on a borrowed bike, waited a year, then bought the bike I wanted anyway. I wouldnt have wanted to drop a load of cash on anything but the bike I wanted. System "fails" again.

    Here's another example to throw into the mix though. Mid 40's harley rider was at my Qride session. He had been riding for 20 years apparently, but unlicensed. The instructor convinced him to do the course on one of their GS500's rather than his Harley (which he rode there), and he still dropped the bike while trying to do a figure-8, stuffed up the counter steering, and ultimately failed the course, had to come back the next day.

    Experience without skills.
     
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  9. You only get that experience from riding, though. A non-Q-Ride learner, who just goes out and gets their learner's permit, is just as inexperienced (when it comes to road riding) as one who goes through Q-Ride.
     
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  10. Personally, I think the year on a 250 that we have was great. I also know that if i didnt have to stick to 250 the chances are that i would have got something bigger straight away. I just think i learnt so much valuable bike control and slow riding skillz on the little 250, so it was certainly worth it for me.

    At the end of the day, thought on the various licensing systems dont mean a pinch of shit, cause all we can each do is follow the requirements of the jurisdiction we are in.
     
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  11. Personally I went through Top Rider on the coast and they really and trully made sure that i was absolutly fully competent before i was allowed to do the test, which meant more hours than a two day course and felt that any less would be paramount to manslaughter (little over the top but you get the picture), so instead of scrapping q-ride maybe extending it to a 4 day or 5 day training over a 2 or 3 weeks, or equivelent hours.
     
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  12. Toprider is good. I got their package which even included a workshop course. Not affiliated with anybody.
     
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  13. I had my car license for 14 years before I got my bike license. I had my learners for over 3 years before I did the Q Ride course. I had hoped to get my license in one day, but bad weather and my skills meant I didn't do a highway run, so I came back for a second day two weeks later.

    I got my 250 license because I didn't see the point on getting on a bigger bike than the one I had waiting in my garage. I have opted to do the time on the 250 till I feel that I need something bigger. Maybe I never will want to get the ZX6R.

    The best way to improve Q Ride would be to offer a discount or rebate for doing further rider training, so we have the skills to ride better.
     
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  14. I hear there is some good scooter training courses available at a sensible discount rate when you decide to upgrade.
     
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  15. What is this thing - a scooter - you speak of?? Oh you mean that pretty little thing Audrey Hepburn rode in Rome?? Or the annoying little things that buzz along the highway doing 60kph in a 100kph zone, wearing half a helmet and high heels?

    I'll stick to my Kawasaki till Honda release a new Blackbird. Go back to your long-winded debate about Global Warming. :wink:
     
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  16. You said above that you couldn't countersteer or ghange gears properly.
    You had to sign a declaration agreeing to the recommendation that the trainer made. yOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASKED TO SIGN IT AFTER THE ASSESSMENT. If you didn't agree with the trainer why did you accept his assessment of your ability. They have to abide by a code of conduct which you should have been given to read, This code also outlined the greivence policy and refund policy.

    I reckon you must have been one of those people who just signed everything witout reading it.

    Did you report the Q-Ride service provider? WHy not if you didnt think they are doing things right.?
     
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  17. Hi everyone

    I got my license through Q-ride when it was a riding school operating from Springwood and Toombul. I found it was a good program as the trainers were dedicated to their work and believed in what they were doing.Not long after Q-ride was sold off, and I think that's when it all went downhill, a lot of the instructors left due to what I believe were differences of opinion with where the organisation was heading. However, at the end of the day it's up to the individual to decide where their comfort zone lies, how competent they are with their riding skills and what they are capable off, nothing can change that.

    It's only now they have decided to put restrictions on what kind of vehicles new drivers can legally drive. I think Q-ride should have remained a separate entity and not another tool used by salesmen or women to sell more bikes, thats where I think they have gone wrong. They have taken away making riders more competent on the road and replaced it with a sales pitch to make more sales.

    Maybe taking the course away may not be the answer but instead improving the riders competency before they get their license, and using independent assessors to help stop cowboy style practices. I've now been riding for 5 years and never had a road accident on a bike, it all comes down to experience which takes time and common sense. A good defensive riding course as a follow up probably wouldn't go astray either?
     
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  18. My local Q ride instructor was really good, a simple no bullcrap approach, He was pretty tough and he said straight out he would have no hesitation to fail us if we didn't come up to the standard he set down, With that he did say he would assist people for free with more bike time until they were up to the Q ride standard.

    He told us during the training about one young guy, he went and did the course, he did everything right, his bike was in excellent condition, but his attitude was all wrong, This guy thought he was bulletproof and could do no wrong.
    As much as he wanted to fail the guy he couldn't, he did what was required and had to pass him and give him his open license.
    After the training he pulled the guy aside and gave him a talking to.
    After an hour he sent him on his way and hoped for the best.....

    2 weeks later the guy was dead, bike wrapped around a power pole, speeding and pulling wheelies past his mates and lost control

    So, who is at fault?
    The parents are to this day blaming Q ride and the dealer who sold him the bike.
    I blame the Idiot behind the handle bars.

    It's all about the attitude. :cool:
     
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  19. I agree with the majority on this one, its all about the rider not the assessment....adding more and more red tape or barriers does not make for safer or better riders. We gotta stop blaming someone for our shortcomings or mistakes. Hooray for Q Ride.
     
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  20. Every state needs a safer training system, why just single out QLD with the question
     
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