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VIC Scooter bike lanes plan

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by jdkarmch, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Herald Sun today

    IMHO Bicycle riders may be opposed to allowing Powered Two Wheeled vehicles(PTW) to share their precious bicycle lanes, but when was the last time a PTW and a motorcycle were involved in an accident in a bicycle lane. Answer - never. The safest place for all singe track vehicles is for them to be allocated their own separate road space. So let's just change the name to "single tracked vehicle lane" and get on with it! This road space is currently being wasted and congestion is being generated as a result because all single track vehicles are not allowed to utilise this road space.

    The HS needs to be flooded with comments on this one by riders. This goes to the heart of things like us being allowed to use bus lanes, filtering etc.

    I believe that a Bicycle Vic representative said to MRA(Vic) while at a safety forum recently, that they would support a change of name to "single tracked vehicle lane" and that BV aren't actually as opposed to the idea as their political stance would have us believe.

    IMHO, I believe that there is a negotiable position that can be achieved here - one that is long overdue.

    Its up to you - the ones who are being discriminated against, for all the wrong reasons - to stand up and be heard - outside this forum.

    So go here and post your comments.

  2. Bus lanes are not bike lanes why are you still pushing shit uphill?
  3. John, just to be completely fair, when the debate about sharing bike lanes was had a while back, there were a couple of stories of bicycle versus motorbike interactions.

    It's a good thing that someone has recognised PTW's as an answer to congestion. Took them long enough.

    The proposal is about low powered PTW's but it's a step in the right direction. Cyclist do have a right to express concern though, thoughtful riders will respect cyclists... I've come around to thinking that the less thoughtful could stuff it up for all of us.
  4. Smee, someone other than John raised the article and the intent of the article is solid.
  5. A quote from another forum:

    Doesn't make sense does it? Buses can do a lot more damage to a bicyclist that any PTW. In fact one caused a fatal in Swanston St as I recall......

    Yep - we are gunna sit back and be shafted......by the lycra lads because we are scared of them[-:)nopity:
  6. What were those stories? Did any of them take place in a designated bicycle lane? Or are we just talking about how the lycra lads feel - supposed scared by PTW (and not by buses).
  7. from the article> "Under the VACC plan, low-powered scooters would be able to use designated on-road bicycle lanes, and they would be allowed to filter through stationary or slow-moving traffic."

    they allready are allowed to, refer Vic road rules.
    i personally think they should be allowed to use bus lanes, foot paths, nature strips, medium strips, whatever.
    but what worries me about the articles proposals, is that when they are provided with "designated safe scooter routes"... then they are in a sense giving up their rights to ride in any of the mainstream traffic lanes.
    as it stands now, if you're on a registered scooter, no matter how tiny and insignificant and gay it may appear, you have as much right to be on the roads in any lane you choose as any other registered roadgoing vehicle.
    and you deserve and are entitled to as much space and respect as any other vehicle beit truck or car.
    i would not like to see the driving community given the impression that this was not so., that they don't belong there in front of them... and that they should get back in the "designated scooter lane".
  8. and how is your typical car tard going to differentiate between a "low powered scooter" and a sportbike... they can't, they are far too retarded.
  9. Go and look. You were part of the thread. Derision is not becoming.
  10. I apologise if you interpreted my remark as being derisory.

    I wasn't aware of the stories. My investigation of the facts uncovered no accidents or incidents in bicycle lanes.

    This is a very contentious subject for which we all remain divided. I contend that we are being shafted and that the cops will book us whenever they can catch us..... Now based on the evidence - that a PTW in a bicycle lane poses a danger to bicycle riders - that is unfair.

    Now, it appears that nobody wants this situation changed. Just recognise the fact that if you get caught using a bicycle lane, and get booked by the cops, then don't turn to me for sympathy.
  11. The low incidence could be due to the law currently prohibiting bicycle lanes to be used by anyone other than bicycles. IIRC I think it was Tony who put up some incidents.

    A trial sounds like a good idea - St Kilda road is a particularly busy road and possibly problematic for a hard to see small scooter. Give those scooters some space that is safer and perhaps more riders will ride and traffic congestion will drop.

    The idea is worth supporting - however cyclists will naturally object to it though.
  12. Yes Tony did put up the incidents - all of which didn't take place in a designated bicycle lane. His research as I recall was that there were on 3 and none were significant.

    Not sure about your low incidence assumption. I see 1000's of PTW using bicycle lanes every week. When the traffic backs up - they get used frequently. I bet if we did a survey that the majority would admit to using bicycle lanes - many or most frequently. I go out of my way to use them whenever the traffic banks up...have shared or followed bicycle riders on many occasions - even chatted with them enroute.

    If you commute to the CBD on any weekday and you don't use a bicycle lane - then I would suggest you are a newbie or .......

    Those here seem not to be City commuter riders - otherwise they would be on my side.
  13. I suggest sometimes people aren't on your side because you're prone to exaggeration and don't show critical thinking in your arguments.

    1000's of PTW's in bicycle lanes?? Hell, even the cyclists don't say that.

    Regarding zero incidents, have you critically searched crash and incidence databases to confirm your assertions?

    If Tony's reported incidents didn't happen in designated cycle lanes is that surprising given that the law prohibits PTW's from being there?

    Look mate, I think a trial would be a good idea, I'm in support of it - Just don't put up an argument that can have a bus lane driven through it.
  14. Has anyone here bothered looking at the bicycle lane design?
    Honestly, most of them are around a meter wide and at times even less and most usually last about a few blocks if you're lucky.

    I proudly ride both moto and pedal and would side on BV on this issue.
    WHY? Because they are not designed to carry both.
    It's not enough just to ask to use them just because you're stuck in traffic and see a gap running along the left side. IF, they redesigned them that would be a different issue.

    Personally, don't know if I'd want to get my MC into the bike lane behind a cyclist at 25kph.
    I wouldn't mind seeing some trial on selected lanes that are wide enough where a MC could use parts only if not being used by a cyclist at the time.
    Any trial would have to give priority to the cyclists.

    I think a change to the filtering laws makes a lot more sense...
  15. What an absurd statement. There are plenty of people on this forum, myself included, who commute through the city regularly. You are saying that if they don't agree with you they must be a newbie or whatever dot-dot-dot is supposed to represent.

    Here's an idea for you: maybe people ride in the city and just don't agree with you.

    Having dedicated two-wheeler lanes is a good idea. Putting the cyclists offside by calling them 'lycra lads' is not. All you are going to do by being hostile and rude is make them more likely to fight hard against any proposal you put up.

    If the scooter folks can get a trial up and running, more power to them. That could work in our favour in the long run. But if you wade in with your offensive comments and bull-in-a-china-shop approach all you will do is scuttle what they are trying to achieve.

    If you honestly want to get something done you've got to stop repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again and actually listen to what people are telling you. You ran a poll one time about motorcycles in bike lanes. From memory the numbers just didn't stack up in your favour. What makes you think it is going to be different this time around?
  16. I was in Amsterdam earlier this year and scooters could share the bike lanes there, so why not here? Amsterdam seems like some sort of holy grail to bicyclists.
  17.  Top
  18. Have you seen the bike lanes in Amsterdam?
    They're like freeways compared to what they do here.

    Was actually thinking of this when I got off the Easter Fwy the other day in traffic...
    There a bike lane wide enough for one bicycle that lasts only until the swimming pool...
    Then thought about me riding my bike at 25-30kph and a motorcyclists comes up behind 60kph... How happy would he be stuck behind me and traffic to his right that probably won't let him in..
    The whole thing is not a simple as it appears as Australian bicycle lane designs of which most are last minute thought only because there just happens to be enough room for a block or two..
  19. That bicycle lane is not wide enough for sharing purpose...
    If they're really serious about PTW vehicles, cages currently have two lanes on the side road and two lanes in the middle, why not in peak hour dedicate the lane next to the bike lane to PTW....

    It's a fact that more people would choose to ride more (both bicycle and MC) if there's dedicated lanes.....
  20. umm the bike lanes were 1/2 the footpath where we were.