Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

School zones poll/discussion

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by ibast, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. Yes

    14 vote(s)
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
  3. should only be on schools that need it

    34 vote(s)
  1. there's been comments in a couple of different threads lately about school zones.

    My personal opinion is a I don't like them. I think the concept of the vehicle passing through being the danger is a myth.

    Having lived on a quiet crescent that backed onto a school and currently living on the same block as a school, my conclusion is it is the parents that present the biggest danger to children.
  2. I tend to agree that, at most schools, kids getting reversed over by parents incapable of seeing out of their 4wds is probably a higher risk.

    However, schools do tend to be areas of high vehicle and pedestrian activity at opening and closing time, which tends to equate to a high risk of accidents. Not only are there kids around on foot, but there are the pulling in/pulling out/reversing etc school run cars and, potentially, big view blocks in the shape of buses.

    So, and I know I'm likely to get flamed for this, I think a reduced speed limit may be justified. However, whether it is or not needs to be determined on a case by case basis, not as an overall blanket policy.

    For example, I live opposite a primary school where the level of pedestrian and manouvering automotive traffic, IMHO, justifies the 40 limit where and when it applies. However, a few km away are a primary school and a high school on adjacent sites where all abnormal traffic activity takes place on a loop of road away from the public road system. In that case, I consider the 40 limit on adjacent public roads to lack adequate justification.
  3. Wow, you're sticking your neck out there in a politically correct world big fella and I dips my hat to you.

    I've got a lot to say about this but have held back because it will be 'just another rant by Chef'. I've been working on the schools BER projects, my impression is the kids are heaps smarter than the parents.

    The kids follow the school crossing rules, the parents while following the road rules to a certain degree can be clueless asshats while trying to navigate the side streets.

    The issue is not speed, but two way traffic in the side streets, it just presents too many variables. And having the school zone times extend out to either end by an hour when it's not warranted simply dilutes the importance of them in the minds of the people who use those roads. The same principle applies for roadworks, but I don't want to derail your thread.

    Now here's the important bit, the easy school zones are policed, but they're less likely to present a danger than the harder ones. My personal beef is with the one around the corner from my place, it's 40ks 24/7. Thank fvck they don't police it, because out of school hours EVERYBODY ignores it.
  4. I don't have a problem with school zones as such but I have a big issue with the inconsistent way in which the zones have been implemented.

    Some school zones are only active during certain hours around start and finish of school and on school days only (that's good), some are active certain hours and require slowing down on school holidays (that's annoying) and some of them are permanent 24 hours a day/7 days a week/365 days a year (and that's not only annoying it's also stupid).
  5. I think school zones are appropriate on some roads. Where the 'normal' speed limit it 60kmh or more than slowing the traffic to 40km during the time that kids are wondering around it a good thing.

    But, I doubt the need in 50kmh zones.

    Having done the pick up/drop off routine, I think ibast has a point. There is more danger from parents who aren't paying attention to what's going on than from passing traffic....
  6. There are definately a few pointless school zones on major roads. Ones where I have gone past in school time daily and never seen a school kid near the road. If all picking up, busses is done on back streets away from the major road then the major road should not be included.
  7. I think what has been argued previously is that parents should take greater care to ensure their children arent at risk. Although I do accept that parents have a responsibility they should not pass on to others including road users, I do not believe the children should be the ones that should suffer (or their safety put at risk) because of what might just be a momentary lapse in concentration from an otherwise responsible parent.

    I do not beleive any road user is significantly disadvantaged by reducing their speed for a short stretch although would certainly conceed that some of time periods are too long and other arrangements including fencing could be used as an alternative in some instances.

    If there are other road designs or options that protect children certainly put them forward but to lay the responsibility purely on the shoulder of the parents when it is a young child that can come away with an injury or worse is not the way. Why punish a child for the actions of a parent - whatever you think of the parent.
  8. I agree with the parents being the larger danger, but i do think that having 40 zones past schools where kids are walking along the sides of the road is still important - especially when you have idiot parents dropping dropping their kids off in inappropriate locations - again causing the major problems imo.

    I pass the primary school next to UWS Penrith during morning 40 zone time and there are cars going everywhere, definitely a good example of a place that needs a 40 zone.

    The school in San Marino estate, Prestons is another example of a place you need 40 zones, again because the parents there are mental.

    There are a few places though where kids come nowhere near the road because there are overhead walkways and the actual footpath is walled or fenced off from the road - in these cases i think it is a little pointless.
  9. Personally I like the ACT system where school zones are all 40 kph Mon-Fri 0800-1600. There's no confusion as each zone is the same and they're all day meaning you don't have to always check the time to see if they're in force or not. I think it works well here.
  10. My daughter goes to this school and I'd argue the opposite. This is a 50 zone anyway. Outside of school times you'd have to be reckless to get to the limit, because of the location of the round-about. During school drop-off and pick-up, due to the density of traffic, you'd be reckless if you did 20.

    The 40 zone serves no purpose.

    most schools zones where speed matter are like this. Others where you can get up to speed, have engineering controls in place, like overpasses and fences. So the 40 zone there is pointless.

    I'd say less than 10% of 40 zones serve a purpose.
  11. I am all for bringing back a little selective pressure to the gene pool.
  12. You know if I had to have a stab at it I'd say somewhere on your desk is a big rubber stamp, because that's a rubber stamp solution. Our school zones down here have all been hit with the rubber stamp, of which there are about three. It's by forcing a complex problem into a simplified solution without a thorough understanding of the issues that causes the problems.

    We have school zones on major arterial roads three lanes in either direction, these roads should never have been touched with a rubber stamp.
  13. Without a doubt it's the parents. Picking up the kids is a nightmare. Ignorant people with inflated ego's all wanting to be the first in and out.
    It's the kid running late that is going to run out across the road and the time zone is over by then.
    I still think it should be forty. No it's not the solution. But it's all we have at the moment.
    They need to have flashing lights or some more bright legible signs than the ones they put behind the trees or parked cars. Not for the sake of the kid but you. So you know these idiots are out and about.
    From personal experience one kid has to go to footy in one direction and the other netball ten K's the other way and all in fifteen minutes. Grrr.
    You can legislate anything but sheer stupidity.
  14. Okay, I've got lots to say, so here goes.

    There is some need for SOME school zones, at the moment. But we never should have implemented them.

    I believe preschools (where the speed limit is 80 or less) should have school zones, but only to 60 k's minimum speed limit, purely because the parents literally HAVE to be there to pick and drop them off, there's very little chance for a kid to run out onto the road when there's massive fences and parents holding hands. If the preschool is on a highway then I don't feel there is a need for a drop in the speed limit.

    I believe ALL disabled kids schools should have school zones. Blind, deaf, mentally disabled - whatever. All of them should have school zones to a maximum speed of 60 k's, 50 k's an hour would be better.

    I believe ALL highschools (obviously disabled schools are exempt) should NOT have school zones. If you're 11 or 12 f*ucking years old and in highschool, then you should f*ucking know how road rules work by now, and you should no longer have the puppy mentality of "oh look a ball! i'm gonna chase it!"

    I believe ALL schools on highways should NOT have school zones. It's an 80 k's zone or faster, you're going to have to learn soon, there's massive overpasses, there's high fences, the kids can barely escape as it is at 3pm.

    I believe ALL kindergarten classes should be taught by both teachers AND parents the road rules. And don't baby it for them. Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. Don't use stupid people dressed up in animal suits singing songs and dancing around - kids will just be thinking of the animal and the song, not what's being taught. Tell them how it is, once a week or fortnight have a 10 minute or 30 minute discussion on road rules with your kids, or more often, every day even, with schools teaching it as mandatory. Show them a kid who's lost a leg because they were hit by a car or whatever (so long as nothing graphic is shown, just the story/kid) and that going near ANY roads without holding an adults hand to cross the road is NOT allowed.

    Kids need education, not baby talk, not songs, and not to be dismissed as "not knowing any better". If they can talk and understand what you're saying, and proper parenting and teaching is in place, then the road rules will be followed by kids. Plus, who's more likely to be run over these days? A kid running across the road following a ball, or some stupid self-absorbed man or woman on their mobile phone not looking to cross the road?

    This nation has gone too far wrapping f*ucking every f*ucking inch of everything in cotton wool instead of looking for a solution and education to teach our kids something for once.

    If only they opened their goddamned eyes, school zones would never have been implemented in the first place.
  15. In some places, they are justified. In many places, they are not. In a lot of places, they deserve at least one face-palm.

    Same way that there are some streets where a 30km/h limit is justified, but chucking that on every other road would cause more problems than it'd solve.

    There's no proof that education is good for anything.
  16. I disagree, it's good for relatively cheap child care...
  17. Interestingly, one that has not been rubber stamped is peakhurst public school. 6 lanes and a speed camera, pedestrian bridge over the top and a fence separating traffic direction. It has all the conditions to be prime for a school zone.
  18. I agree with ZRX1200R where the School Zones where they are active only during the peak times is ok. There's a school zone not too far from where I live that is always 40km/h which is designed to catch drivers out and revenue raising.
  19. That's why I said it works well here. I realise that may not be the case in other areas that have school zones on major arterial roads. But for the ACT, I think it works very well.
  20. it's all so they don't have to teach people how to drive