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Safe Rider Rider Assist Technologies is coming.

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by robsalvv, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. http://www.mira.co.uk/research/saferider


    Saferider-diagram_2.


    SAFERIDER - Advanced Rider Assistance

    European statistics show that Powered Two Wheeler (PTW) road accidents are extremely high, and a large percentage of accidents are fatal.

    However, the application of Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) technologies to these vehicles is lagging behind passenger cars.
    MIRA recognised the need in the sector and has been developing Advanced Rider Assistance Systems (ARAS) and on bike information systems for Powered Two Wheelers.

    These technologies need to be designed in such a way that will not interfere with driving or annoy the rider. Two wheelers are very sensitive vehicles (from the dynamics point of view); any unexpected changes in their motion could lead to loss of control, potentially resulting in an accident.

    Advanced telematics for enhancing the SAFEty and comfort of motorcycle RIDERs.



    SAFERIDER is an EU collaborative project that aims to enhance the safety and comfort of PTWs by applying unique Advanced Rider Information Systems and On Board Information Systems.

    Currently there is a fleet of PTWs across Europe evaluating the benefits of these systems. These are being used to estimate the safety impact and user acceptance of the prototypes in a series of pilot applications based on accident analysis data and driving studies.

    Forward facing sensors gather data on the road ahead which is adjusted based on a high accuracy inertial measurement system. A touchscreen navigation unit contains a digital map of the road and provides a visual interface for warning to the rider. Additionally haptic feedback is given via the helmet and gloves providing vibrating and audible warnings


    = = = = = =

    ...you can't be trusted. You have to be saved from yourself...




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  2. Be interesting to see how they deal with obstacles in corners. If it brakes that could cause issues and if it doesn't that limits its application.
     
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  3. I guess I will be limited to buying second hand bikes if it gets that bad. Lagging behind cars my arse. What's wrong with eyes??
     
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  4. I think its reaction time not eyes that are the issue. Giving half a second on a smidsy could be the difference.
     
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  5. Are you open to all this gadgetry VC or not?


    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
     
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  6. If it works, I am open, will I buy it? Depends on cost, weight, effectiveness etc

    Saying no before you see the details is a little closed minded. Why are you so when you don't know the negatives (or are guessing them)?

    I also find it interesting from an engineering view how they will deal with braking in corners as well.
     
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  7. I'm mildly enthusiastic about the technology, and eager to see what they can do with it that's useful.

    My reservation is that like most other motorcycle safety programs, surveys, studies etc., it may or may not start out as a stalking horse for the safety nazis, but it can easily become one.
     
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  8. The flaw with humans is that we make mistakes - always have always will. We aren't based on 1s and 0s (broadly, because some research indicates we might be). We don't operate on hard logic though.

    The flaw with machines, is that they can't read context (yet anyway). They are also based on being coded by humans.

    Thus is the battle. The other question is, does giving humans information from machines compound the problem, because then we have humans relying on machines for data, rather than gathering it themselves? i.e. Will a rider stop head checks, because the machine says the next lane is clear (although I'd argue this is misuse of such a system).

    The way of getting around this is to have the electronics deliberately interfere with the bike (i.e. applying brakes) - of course then you come back to the issue of control, and what if it is done in the wrong context? I remember an air crash investigation episode which is referred to as an example of why pilots should be able to override what the computer thinks is the limit.

    I'm obviously open to the idea liking ABS myself, and having a GPS on my bike - but this isn't in the realm of those 2 technologies. This is blurring the line of control, and contextual decisions.

    Overall I like the development of this stuff and think it could lead to some useful features, or technology we mightn't have thought of. The potential for misuse (i.e. by the rider) or misapplication (by designers or legislators) is large though. So it is quite reasonable that people are cautious about these things appearing.

    Done and developed properly, this might lead to some really cool and useful stuff. Done wrong though, and it could make the problem even worse...
     
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  9. The only good thing about all that shit is plenty of legit places to store speed measuring detection and jamming equipment.
     
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  10. Jam the radar detector... But receive an automatically generated fine from the gps speed data uploaded to vicroads by 3g :p

    /tinfoil hat
     
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  11. Exactly - that's nightmare #1. You can't detect police radar when there isn't any. The speed detection equipment is built into your bike, and it has to be on and working or the injectors won't inject.

    Nightmare #2. Half way around that truck you realise the guy coming at you is going a bit faster than you thought, so you roll it on, and nothing happens. Dog forbid that you should break the speed limit. Don't you know how unsafe that is?

    Nightmare #3. Something goes down that you may have nothing to do with, but big brother knows you were parked 50m away when it happened. You just became a suspect.

    Nighmare #4. You're joining up with all the other right thinking people to go and march against this government, because it has to go, but mysteriously, your bike breaks down on the way...
     
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    • Like Like x 2
  12. What has this got to do with tracking etc. This technology already exists in cars and doesn't do that. You are too paranoid.

    Unless you think that anything with electronics could have a tracking chip. Wait kneedragon, your zx14 has electronic fuel doesn't it, that's electronic and so must be tracked. Your efi already is capable of all those scenarios especially as it is controlling the fuel. You better get rid if it. Hey I will swap it for the Dr which I can guarantee doesn't have electronic fi and so isn't tracked. You pay shipping since I am doing you a favour.
     
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  13. You leave my tinfoil helmet alone! I just got it working right.

    The 14 doesn't have a GPS receiver, or a significant amount of memory - much less a transmitter. And if it was ever going to dobb me in, believe me - it would have done so.

    I do have a phone with a GPS receiver, and a transceiver that's always live, and the tech to keep at least a rough track of where you are, by the phone tower hand off logs (and logically, how quickly you're going) is very much there. At this point, nobody is using that data for enforcement of basic traffic laws. Yet. But in terms of the technology, there's no reason they couldn't. All it takes is a little processing power.

    I'm not talking about what is happening. I'm talking about what could. They're busy trying to get cars made with a breathalyser built in, that won't go until you prove you're straight. They're trying to get cameras and black boxes fitted to trucks. Cabs have already got them. (Yes, those are not about traffic enforcement, but all the hardware is already there.) Plenty of cars in the Excited States already track a surprising amount of information about where they go and what they do, AND relay it back to the factory. There was a stink about this only a couple of weeks ago.

    [edit] - After writing that, I went off to trawl the wider pools of electronic muck and smut - and what did I stumble over?

    http://www.tomsguide.com/us/FCC-Mobile-Devices-iPhone-Android,news-12775.html

    I know I'm paranoid - but am I paranoid enough?
     
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  14. Has history taught you nothing?


    Interesting? Which conservative algorithm will they choose to dictate the speed and braking solution for how YOU should get through the corner.

    This shit should be fought.
     
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  15. Vertical C - the systems (gps, dataloggers etc) on their own don't do anything to hinder you but the scary part is once they become integrated with eachother than is it childsplay to add the functionality to add all the big brother stuff. But like everything they'll slowly wein us onto it laying the groundwork putting all the infulstructure in place then say it's only for convicted offenders etc and they'll just ramp it up.

    Average speed cameras - oh that's ok they're only for trucks....

    Mobile speed cameras - oh that's ok there's only 6 of them in blackspots
     
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  16. From their descriptions, there's no mention of any inteference with bike controls, so no auto braking, no throttly disabling etc.

    The goal seems to be to use a combination of road scanning, inertial navigation and GPS to provide feedback to the rider though the helmet or vibration through the gloves. I figure it would be similar to an aircraft stall warning.

    *bzz*bzz* POTHOLE *bzz*bzz* GRAVEL *bzz*bzz* MUPPET IN VAN etc

    For the record, I think its a bad idea, and in practice the threshold for the alarm would have to be very high to justify the potential distraction. That said, there are worse things coming out the EU that need to be stopped (disallowing any modifcations, anyone?). Choose your battlefield.

    I prefer a copper gauze beanie myself. A tinfoil hat won't stop the rays, they want you to think that...
     
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  17. My bike has electronics that limits the throttle response in the first few gears
    I'm not quite sure why. (It's a 650 twin so it's not like it wheelies uncontrollably)
    Anyway, a few very cheap bits of circutry later, that feature mysteriously stopped working.

    Something tells me 'monitoring' devices on bikes could prove similarly unreliable
     
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  18. Depending on what information it sends through and whether you can adjust the level of feedback then I don't have a big problem. I can see some uses for this.

    But I worry that this is the thin end of the wedge. If the information is recorded will we then see cops stopping and checking on our readouts to see what speeds we've been doing (and where we've been)?
     
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  19. ** SIGH **

    Great, all these Murac type of people want to get to a point where our bikes/cars do all the riding/driving/thinking for us..

    I ride because I WANT TO RIDE..
    If I want a machine to do everything I'll take some sort of public transport...

    Geez!
     
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  20. Kneedragon, this system only has a radar and a haptic feedback system. It doesn't have control of the brakes or data from the speedo.

    If big brother wanted to add a device to do the four scenarios, then it would be easier to add it to efi, which would be able to prevent you exceeding the limit by reducing fuel.

    This new system wouldnt be able to do that. That's why I dont understand why you are paranoid about this when you bought a bike with efi which is much easier to implement the scenarios that you are afraid of.



    Which history?

    Actually its less interesting because I thought it braked for you when I wrote that. That would be interesting as if it was conservative then it wouldn't brake in time to avoid the obstacle. If it was too eager and you were at full traction in a lean then braking would cause a loss of traction and a crash. That makes it interesting. Now that I read its simple haptic feedback, then giving feedback in corners is only a concern because it might distract the rider mid corner, cause a crash, reducing its effectiveness.

    Ok the shit must be fought and at least you ate doing that by buying a zx9 which is carbied, but so many others are not that it is so widespread that it is likely to become compulsary, you worry about this technology that's still in testing when the technology that is more likely to be used for the nightmare scenarios is much more common.

    Yes, but as I said to kneedragon, why did you buy a bike with efi if you are concerned about these things. You buying efi could be the first step and is more likely to result in the orwellian scenario that you fear than this system which only gives rider feedback.
     
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