Separate names with a comma.
Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.
Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by azi, May 18, 2008.
Not! Current ZX6 is 600cc.
What the point of a 600 class ?? Everything else Ive read has been talking about a 400 class which makes more sence and comparing a kawaka 600 to a gp machine leaves me wondering what the writer was on at the time..
Aprilia and other scooter makers still have a bit to say about the changes they cant be controled by Honda's threats of pulling out unless..
I hope it stays two stroke.
If they go for a 640cc class I wonder if there'll be all that much of a gap between their lap times and the 800s in the main race.
Dropping 2-strokes was inevitable, but I kinda hoped they would have gone with a 500-600cc single-cylinder class to keep them distinctive (and also because the engine technology is already mostly there thanks to SM racing). Still hope that might happen with the 125s I guess.
Yeah, that sucks.
And it'll be a far less thorough education for young riders moving up through the GP ranks; the current bikes are finicky and incredibly sensitive to the smallest setup changes - so the riders have to learn the art of giving excellent feedback and helping to develop a bike. This is why superbike riders, who have a far smaller adjustment span on their bikes, generally do so poorly in MotoGP.
Yes, a 400cc class would make some sense (half of MotoGP's capacity), but 600? I don't get it.
It's a shame 2-stroke is going to vanish. Let's hope there is some kind of revival in the future with direct injection etc etc, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm not sure about making it single cylinder though. Perhaps open engineering for the first year or two to allow the teams to figure out what the best configurations are. Parity will eventually be reached. Remember when MotoGP first started? There were all sorts of configurations from 3 to 5 cylinders; now it's just straight and V fours.
From a commercial perspective though there's an obvious thing that a 600 class would help sell 600cc road bikes - whereas demand for 400cc roadbikes is presumably not that high given no-one makes them anymore.
Open engineering would be interesting to see, especially if there was no ban on the use of forced induction.
They took 500cc 2 stroke and made them 990cc 4 strokeâ€¦
Wouldnâ€™t it make sense to just add 400 â€“ 500 cc 4 stroke and leave 250 2 stroke available in the same way they originally did for GP?
Hmm I can see the VFR 400 taking off againâ€¦
[EDIT] And this would mean they are not treading on the Super Sport toes at all [/EDIT]
Lots of new 400cc road bikes being made now.
Honda CB400 for one
Which is a naked - with all the other 400s being either a naked, cruiser, retro, scooter or motard.
There are no 400cc sportsbikes being produced any more, and I doubt anyone's going to rush out to buy an SR400 for example because a 400cc Yamaha won a MotoGP race.
They're only naked until you put a fairing on them.
As with all road legal bikes including the sports bikes like the cbr600RR's, a lot of work is needed to turn them into a race bike. Even more if you want one capable of winning a race.
Engine mods, suspension mods, geometry changed, aftermarket fairings, different ecu's & wiring looms, brake pads, rotors lines etc.
Not much left of the standard machine.
So does it really matter if the original is a sports or naked or cruiser?
I don't think GP class engine capacities should have anything to do with production bikes - that's the job of Superbikes.
If there's talk of phasing out 250s and replacing it with a lower cost inline-4 class (as suggested in the original article), then why bother? Why not just scrap it and run supersports? My impression of 'grand prix' is that it is the premium racing class, so 400-500cc prototype engineering would be a fitting replacement for 250cc 2-stroke.
I disagree with someone's suggestion of forced induction - this would probably make development costs skyrocket, as well as overshadow the 800cc class (unless they allowed it there too).
When was forced induction last allowed in the GP class? Before WW2?
Dunno but it is something manufacturers seem to be looking at again as a way of getting emissions (at idle) down low enough to pass Euro standards, yet still offering the hp buyers want (even if they don't actually need it).
Development of the technology through racing would therefore be good, but I agree it would probably be too expensive to be feasible.
And Ian although you probably could turn a 400cc cruiser into a track bike the point is that people are going to want to buy what they see going around the track - I don't think you'd convince them to buy a CB400 or a cruiser on the basis that it'd look just like the race bike if you fitted a fairing.
Seeing as the concensus seems to be "the racing bikes should be similar to road going version", who (apart from the VFR800) makes an 800 faired road bike? No-one seems to mind that you cant buy a bike which is like an 800 GP bike (the DesmoRR doesnt count).
Im not too fussed about the loss of the 2strokes, just so long as there is a racing class which a)Provides upcoming riders with a stepping stone to the 800s and b)Is good to watch (close racing with lots of passing/rider's skill being shown)
i would like it to go back to the good old days, of 125, 250 and 500.
I would have thought so too. 800, 400, 200 classes. However, I liked the 990s.
Probably down to environmental concerns, a shrinking market for production based equipment because of such concerns and those of us who hate the sound of 2 strokes.
But then I found the 800s at PI to sound more like 2 strokes than the 4 stroke monsters of the 990s the year before.
As Vermulen said, return to 990s, piss off a lot of the rider aids and get back to watching the likes of McCoy doing the Sultan of Slide thing (well, if McCoy could ever get back into GP racing, that is...) And base the "lesser" classes proportionate to the 990 class. Having 650s then 800s makes it a bit pointless, I reckon. But if it's going to be down to cost, then crank up the premier class back to 990s and give some relief to relying on hi-tech for outright performance.
I'm guessing the reason for 600cc is its the only way to ensure the class is at least as fast as the one it replaces. I don't think there would be much interest from makers, sponsors or spectators in a class that went slower.
I did hear a bit of a rumour regarding the 600cc limit. It had something to do with using production based engines but unlimited chassis mods/design. Any way, whatever it is it sounds boring to me
Production based engines will likely be vetoed by Flamini.
Costs are a huge issue for the 250 teams. Look at the raging success that 990's and 800's have been for adding to the grids. Arguably the most successful and marketable time for Motogp racing in its history and no more than 18 places can be filled in the grid.
250's are a largely static class with kit and factory bikes, run by teams on tiny budgets (compared to motogp). Dorna have made some dumbass decisions, but mess with 250's and they stand to lose a lot.
And those small manufacturers that don't make mid capacity 4 strokes that are the current mainstay?