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Sachs Express Problem

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by TallRider, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. My girlfriend recently bought an 07 Sachs Express Used to learn on but it has a couple of problems. I know a few people on the forum have one so hopefully you can help.

    Firstly it doesn't start with the kickstand down, even when in neutral, is this normal for this bike?

    Secondly the bike wont start if its in gear. So if it stalls you need to find neutral before it can be started, seems sort of dangerous especially for a learner.

    One thing I noticed, it has two wires from the kickstand that plug in to a connector that has three wires with one of the slots left empty (not sure on the correct electrical jargon)

    Any help would be appreciated
  2. Kickstand down is like a killswitch, so it stops you from riding away with it hanging out

    I can't say if its normal for it to not start in gear.... but my Honda didn't when I first got it, there may be a faulty switch built into the clutch lever that activates neutral when fully depressed (the dash light + allowing it to start). Bit of sandpaper and grease on the contacts could help
    And I agree.. finding neutral in a hurry can be a biatch

    Good luck

  3. should start when clutch engaged?
  4. I'll have a look tonight to see if I can find the switch for when the clutch is pulled in.

    The kickstand is kinda a hassle but not really a problem, would be nice to warm it up while still on the stand. My bike only cuts out when you put the bike in gear while the stand is down.

  5. Perhaps thats what its MEANT to do, and is wired up wrong..

    as long as its in neutral there should be nothing to cut the engine

    Dad's Virago is like that, he once went to put it in gear with the side stand down.. worked ok (clutch was in) then he let the clutch out JUST enough to flick the switch but not engage and it stalled
    Repeat process 2-3 times before hearing him say "oh so THATS how this thing works" :p

  6. I would call your local Sachs dealer & ask if that is normal (it might be), if not, they may have a simple fix.

    Good luck!
  7. Sachs being a single if allowed to warm up on the sidestand will probaby rock itsef loose and topple over.
    My BMW being a big twin has the same setup. You can't start it on the sidestand and definitely not in gear.
  8. I rang a dealer:

    Kick stand does act as to completely kill the electronics.

    They tried starting a bike they had there while in first with the clutch in and it started so its definitely not normal.

    Anyone have an idea what could cause this before I take it somewhere to get fixed?
  9. there is likely a little electronic logic loop that interlinks neutral, clutch and sidestand. Many bikes have sligtly different logic depending on the switch sequence.

    So what you are saying is the bike at the dealer would start with the sidestand up, in gear, but with the clutch in?

    if so then the problem with your bike must be the neutral switch and/or the wiring to and from.
  10. Yep thats correct. Thanks for you help people. I guess I'll have a bit of a look with a meter. Pretty new to this mechanical stuff. Just bought by own bike recently and have tackled replacing chain/sprockets and clutch cable. Saved at least $250 in labour so far. Unfortunately I dont think there is a service manual for the sachs... at least not in english.
  11. ** ALL text written by me (GTRVL) is for entertainment purposes only,moding your bike could make it NON ADR compliant or cause personal injury, death or property damage! read and play at you own risk! **

    Thats right, side stand down = no go! as for the in gear start thing ur dealer is full of Shark,.... well maybe not shark but sumthing that sounds like that ;) no sachs express will start or run with the side stand down or if its in gear,.. well it will run once started in neut. then put into gear or you wouldnt be able to ride it lol. If you want to over ride the no electric start in gear thing get the following:
    1\ test light
    2\ spanner and socket to get the seat off
    3\ 10-20cm of wire
    4\ a mini bullet male crimp
    5\ 5-10mm ring crimp (to get you new earth)
    6\ crimping tool
    7\ eleco tape

    THEN do the following:
    1\ take the seat off
    2\ find the start solinoid near the battery (you might have to take the kick start side side cover off to see the battery and the whole solinoid)
    3\ there is one fat wire going to the battery, another fat wire going to the starter motor then there are two smaller wires that join in bullet plugs in the middle around where your nuts would be when your riding.
    4\ turn the bike onto run, make sure its on the centre stand with the side stand up.
    5\ when you hit the start button one wire will have power (test both wires with your test light) and the other gets a ground from the spedo cluster when the bike is in netural (to do with the gear selector indicator thingo on the dash)
    6\ re connect the wire you found power on to its mate but leave the other side disconnected.
    7\ get your wire and crimp the ring on one end and find a bolt with a ground, if in doubt use one of the bolts that holds the tank on and crimp the mini bullet on the other end and plug that into the other empty connector on the start solinoid side. no point pluging it into the other side becasuse that goes back to the gear indicator thingo on the dash ;)
    8\tape up spare wires for safety.
    9\ pat your sachs on the mirror and tell it how much you love it and how awesome it is.

    NOW when you turn the key and hit the start button you get the positive to the solinoid and the bike dosnt care what gear its in because it can earth direct to the chassis via your new mod wire, no need for the gear indicator to supply the earth :D

    If you own a express - KN150 like me I feel sorry for you but mine was $125 not running off ebay and I ride it to and from work so i dont care when people laugh, hell i laugh when i think of how cheap it was! BUT BUT BUT go to a key place and get the crappy original key cut onto a honda blank NOW!!! the factory keys snap in the ignition. I can tell you how to fix that but why? u`ll never need to do it beacuse you on the way to the key place right now rnt you!?!

    all spelling mistakes are free of charge to loving readers that love beer like I do!

    any q`s? email the bat cave on mm_voodoo@yahoo.com
  12. There should be a switch connected to the clutch lever so that it will start with the clutch pulled in, when its in gear. ie it overrides the 'safety switch' that would normally stop it starting unless its in neutral.
    If that clutch switch is faulty you'll get the symptoms you describe. Check the leads are plugged in at the clutch, if that doesn't help, unpug the leads and test the switch with a multimeter.
    Personally, I'd bypass all the 'safety switches', toss out a kilo of wire and relays and rely on the riders brain to not try starting it in gear with the throttle held wide open while the bike is pointing at the edge of a cliff. FFS if we can't manage that we shouldn't be allowed to walk on the footpath let alone ride on the road!
    Rant over, and good luck!
    Edit: Just read the post above....+1