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Rossi worries over techno bikes

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by CamKawa, Dec 23, 2007.

  1. http://www.bikepoint.com.au/portal/...501554/ArticleID__2873069/DesktopDefault.aspx

    Italian champ criticizes traction control

    Multi world title winner Valentino Rossi has again expressed his concern over the use of sophisticated electonics on MotoGP bikes, questioning whether they should be there at all.

    The Italian champ said he would like to see a ban or at least a limit on the electronics allowed on race bikes, as they potentially reduce the influence of the riders on the outcome of a race.

    He said Aussie Casey Stoner, who took his Ducati to victory in the MotoGP world title in 2007, was the first of a 'new generation' of riders who would completely trust a traction control system to do its job.

    "For old generation riders like me, Marco Melandri and Loris Capirossi we have a lot of problems to understand. You have to be brave to use the systems.

    "It is difficult sometimes to have confidence in a system because that system is not human.

    "As an old generation rider, when the engineers come to you and say you can open the throttle full when you're knee is on the ground at 150ks in the middle of the corner, it is easy to say this from the pits.

    "It is different on the bike and that is the main problem for the old generation guys. Casey believes in the system and we don't," added Rossi.
  2. I agree. You have a hard job but your remuneration reflects that.
    To a certain extent that's what motorcycle racing is all about Valentino, a small brain and large testicles.
    If you go back a few years and look at Casey's crash record you'll find that he's not a bloke who's afraid to open the throttle and hope for the best.
  3. So basically he's saying he's a wuss!

    Oh, and a f#cking whinger! :roll: If he thinks he can be faster without it then turn it off like Hayden did.
  4. Man, is it just me, or has Rossi turned from graceful loser (2006) to a complete and utter whining twat in 2007? Why didn't he mention Pedrosa in that statement too? Casey also rode on the 990cc bikes as well, and on a satellite Honda without any real form of traction control. He binned it a lot, but that was typically from front-end loses, not from a rear wheel driven high-side, so clearly Casey had learned throttle control and adapted to the newer 800cc bikes faster than Rossi has.

    Yes, and Hayden had his traction control mostly disabled. If Rossi wanted to start sliding the bike around, and don't try to tell me that 230hp isn't enough power to do that, then he's more than free to demand that Jerry Burgess turns it off on his bike.
  5. I have never been a rossi fan and now the rest of the world knows why ,hes always come accross to me as a smart ass and a spoilt brat whos benefited from the best tecknical staff and mechanics.Now that this is not enough hes havin a sook.Boo Hoo Monkey boy :p
  6. Is the traction control really so advanced it allows you to just crack the throttle wide open in the middle of a corner? Sounds pretty unlikely to me, seeing as in top-end cars you can still smoke up the tyres a bit even in a straight line.

    I suspect Rossi is just a sore loser.
  7. I think that Rossi's comments are legitimate. He has grown up and developed a riding style or technique based on bikes that didn't have rider aids. It's understandable that he's not totally confident in say, traction control.

    And for you guys to call him a "wuss" is laughable, given what he's done out on the track.

    Oh, for the record, I'm not a Rossi fan.
  8. You can?

    My "low end" SS had traction control and it worked pretty good.

    Given the amount of dough that is spent on the technology on race bikes, it'd be pretty safe to say that yeah, Rossi could crack the throttle wide open mid-corner and not having to worry if he'll still be on the bike as it leaves the corner.
  9. From what I've read, it's a combination of a number of things.

    The tyre technology has advanced to a large degree that side grip is far higher than it used to be even a few years ago. A number of racers commented on this during the final 990cc season that tyre traction had jumped markedly.

    The 800cc bikes don't have as much torque to unhook the rear wheel. This is also witnessed by engineers choosing to use the screamer engine firing formats again because the engines, coupled with the improved tyres, don't unhook the tyres as easily.

    The traction control works on top of those two quite significant differences/developments (grippier tyres and less torquey engines) and it would seem that the traction control doesn't have to work too hard to stop the rear from spinning up. Even after Hayden turned his off, he's still not sliding it around anywhere near as much as he did on the 990's.
  10. Or is this another one of those Italian to English translations that don't actually reflect the true nature of what was said.

    Oh and btw, Casey has also criticised the influence of traction control on the bike as did Capirossi and Hayden. Capirossi was totally unable to get to grips with the electronics package on the GP7 and Hayden went better the more things he switched off. As did Kurtis Roberts who lapped markedly better with little or no interference.

    We can't have it both ways. One of the criticisms levelled at the electronic aids and the 800's in particular is that corner speeds are increased, braking areas decreased and acceleration reduced (comparatively speaking) which limits the opportunities a rider has to create an overtaking move. In the olden days a rider could live with that in the belief that tyres would go off and he could wait until the end and try a move then, but TC now means that a shagged rear tyre can still be made to provide good grip.

    Electronic aids bring the bikes closer to the riders, but reduce the spectacle. They create more of a competition for the engnineers and progress bike development, but close racing with lots of the different passing opportunities will decrease. In other words, more like F1 with the attendant costs, lack of overtaking (and in my eyes) and boring racing.

    And I don't really get this 'we hate Rossi coz he is a spoiled brat'. He hasn't been gifted anything, worked his way up through all the classes and won all of them. It seems almost as though people are trying to rewrite history and make it out that it was all a doddle and all he did was turn up.

    As for Casey, he proved himself quite capable of crashing any bike. In his interviews he has made vague statements about why he crashed a lot last year. One in particular was interesting when he stated 'we would go quick on the Saturday and we would be fast, but come Sunday we would crash. We never understood why...' You can read this in two ways.

    1.) He doesn't know why he crashed, but it wasn't him
    2.) Some form of conspiracy.

    The question was posed around the Bridgestone tyres and his old team and his comments either reflected a lack of confidence in Michelin or Honda and Team LCR. He fails to mention his ability to crash on the 125, the 250, the KTM, the 990. He states that he gets peeved and annoyed about the comments on his crashing and makes references that we 'don't know all that was happening'.

    When asked at the Australian GP by a non GP journo a dumb question he providing a withering one or 2 word answer and a stare that would kill at a 1000 yds. He is known to have little tanties and lashed out at Checa when he accused Checa of impeding his qualifying lap (an offence that Hopper was fined heavily for the previous month).

    Whilst Rossi has behaved poorly this year (and I think he'd be better to just ride) a lot of the issues are poorly worded (or mischevious) translations. A word change here or there to Anglify a response often has a change on the whole response.

    I think the rider who handled this year the best was Hayden. He normally gives me the total shits, but watching the MTV doco on him showed a very humble, down to earth guy who took the poor performance of the Honda and the tyres in his stride. It also showed that HRC is totally behind Pedrosa (who also threatened HRC and Michelin).
  11. If the proliferation of electronics is genuinely the racing improving the breed (will eventually trickle down in some form to our road bikes) then there is some justification for them. But there are two disclaimers, in my opinion.

    The first is that no-one can or should ride at race speeds in the real world, and we are surely not likely to see 230hp road bikes any time soon. Unless and until, the need to be able to pin the throttle mid-corner and allow the electronics to do the rest till the world straightens out has no application on the street.

    Secondly, I shudder to think of the results of teaching new riders to trust the electronics implicitly, on the road, (as Rossi seems to be implying re racing conditions).

    Unrelated, I find it wryly amusing that a person born in 1979 should be claiming to be "older" :LOL:
  12. I can remember seeing a program about the GP/ Stoner at the start of this season, I'm not sure who said this quote, but I have a feeling it was Mick Doohan, discussing Caseys chances for the coming year and what improvements had been made over previous years.....

    "it's much easier to teach a fast rider how NOT to crash, than it is to teach a good rider to ride faster"
  13. I predicated that Hayden would get arse shafted this year by at least HRC, but I didn't pick that Michelin would also get in on the double act. But I really give the guy credit for just taking it on the chin while watching as HRC develop a bike for an unproven midget, while a world champion get the left overs. Never said a word out of place ad just tried to ride the best he could. Admiration plus.

    My tip for next year is that Honda will come out of the blocks the fastest. They found the lost Hp at the end of the season and were as fast as the Ducatis by Valencia. They will have added pnumatic valves for 2008 and they have a brand new bike from the front forks backwards. They will just need the dirty French Michelin tires to come to the party.

    I don't know why the anger at Rossi's comment though, as I reckon half the grid wants the Traction Control removed (Vermuelen can aso be added to Ceejays comprehensive list).

    Anyho, looking forward the next year.
  14. Tell me, what do you think of this interview with Chris V?

    From MotoGPMatters.com

    Because this is Chris Vermuelen it doesn't get reported with the same alarm and corresponding comments as when Rossi mutters something, but the feelings among the riders remain the same.
  15. Thanx Caz v1. Dead right.
  16. maybe.... but Vermuelen wasn't suggesting that it was the electronics that caused Stoner to beat him...... Rossi was.

    And anyone who thinks that casey's bike doesn't get squirrely and lay big black lines isn't watching really hard.
  17. I belive that MotoGP is the pinicile of bike racing...and that the teams should not be restricted to much in what they do or dont place on the bikes....
    Thats the way technology is born If it wasn't for formula 1 & MotoGP we would not have ABS, Traction control, ASR/ASM and all of the other lifesaving goodies that we have now.
    Personally i reckon that a decent rider can outbrake ABS and it shouldent be any different for traction control
    If you want a no frills version of bike racing then watch the post modern classics!!!!
  18. Can't speak for relatively heavy, relatively low-powered SS Commodores, but the 1450kg, 405hp Corvette C6 a friend 'n I rented in the US had laughable traction control. At no time could we rely on it to effectively reign in the power applied to the rear wheels to control wheelspin, especially in the wet. "Huh? Wheelspin? I'll get around to it", it said. "After I've finished my tea."

    That said, TC systems can be set up to be generous or strict with how much slip they allow before they begin to interfere. 's not for me to say how a bike's TC would be tuned.

    I don't know that 'the best' rider (or driver) will be one who can place 100% trust in driver aids - The ABS-brake-equipped-bike study I found showed that the fastest stops were by riders who performed an emergency stop to the best of their human ability (as if the bike had no ABS), with the ABS only stepping in to fix up minor errors or changes in surface quality.

    With that in mind, the best rider/driver will probably be somene who best integrates with the machine - The rider/driver still has to weight-shift traction from one end of the vehicle to the other using brakes/throttle as needed, to control the cornering line. I don't know that a rider could just crack the throttle wide open while dragging a knee at 150kph.
  19. That's what a sportscar TC system should be like. Enough slip to let the driver know they've done something stupid (or let them do something stupid ;)). Keep in mind the TC system for the corvette was designed specifically for skilled drivers so it's only there to prevent really big stuff ups. If you make it too "safe" owners will most likely just disable it entirely (same could apply to bikes).
  20. I understand this, yeah. :) Particularly at the limit of grip where a bit of tyre scrub is to be expected if you're pushing hard, and an over-enthusiastic TC system would incorrectly interpret this situation as a problem.