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Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by pringa8, Jun 9, 2008.
I'll see what they say and post it up afterwards
Well, at least it's on the national map, they were talking about decisions to further use them on cliffs to prevent cars falling off. They spent a lot of time praising them for cars (most of the story) which was sh!t, but then they brought in a rep from NSW saying how in Europe they're described as guillotines and cheese graters for the effects they have on motorcyclists.
It seemed the story was trying to show that they're going for the lesser evil, ie tough shit if you guys get killed cause it saves more drivers lives.
It could have been worse... they could have ignored the bike apsect completely.
they also mentioned that the barriers would be reviewed at the end of the year.
geez i hope they dont hurt themselves rushing back to the f@#*ing drawing board!
Again, someone break out the stats showing WRB's are killing more riders than Armcos and concrete barriers please?
Damn .. missed it
i hate to go against the grain on this kind of subject, but i dont see anything conclusively showing that WRB's kill/hurt riders any more than other types of barriers.
I've heard Dan Rotman from MA talk about this and apparently there have been no studies done yet. MA are trying to get one funded. Be a nice use of our levy in Vic.
PS The motorcycle news last night on 7 down here was a rider going over the edge of the mountain highway (downhill left hander) and a tirade from the coppers about motorcyclists.
I seem to remember a study in europe or something similiar when they were new, saying that there isnt much difference in deaths, but its how they die. If you hit a concrete barrier, you die instantly, if you hit the wire, you have your legs cut off, and you roll about trying to find them before you bleed out and die.
They have been removed in europe now from what i seem to remember from the article.
You would get the same injuries or worse from an Armco railing.
best option if you are riding is to not hit things whilst off the bike.
But not so much if you lowside into a barrier with an underrun rail. Something which hasn't been considered for WRBs. Even an inline strip of plastic sheeting would mean poor buggers won't get their arms though the gap between poles. It's easy to make barriers underrun resistant.
good luck with that sunshine.
if we are simply going on peoples opinion, as you are going on yours (i see nothing to back up your comment), then im pretty sure Armco is rather thick (broad). this would result in a blunt trauma injury, which is obviously gonna hurt, same with WRBs.
but WRBs are less likely to result in blunt trauma (imo, i dont have any stats atm), they simply slice u like a cheese wire. assuming u dont manage to decapitate yourself, then your gona be alive looking for your arms or legs and bleeding out pretty well, before you die, as mentioned before.
and it' going to depend on the angle of impact, and speed etc. if i hit armco on a fair angle, rather than square on, i will probably deflect off it, with not too much trauma. u hit a cheesewire on an angle, and its still a much smaller surface area taking the same impact, resulting in much more trauma to that area (i.e. fair chance u will still slice up).
i know which i'd prefer...
Though i can hardly imagine a wire rope of that thickness cutting through a person at legal speeds. Didn't mythbusters semi-debunk that one by testing cable whiplash on a pig carcass? From memory, it caused some mild lacerations, but no amputation.
It's more those thin, rigid posts, with 90 degree corners, and the effect of having someone hit you with an steel bar doing 20 metres a second, where if you're glancing off a barrier, you can collect the corners of the stakes. I'd imagine amputation would only be an issue at more perpendicular angles.
That's a good option, but I've been trialling the "don't fall off the bike" one for a while now and it's working out pretty sweet too.
Well, if the VicRoads stated approach to the Black Spur is anything to go by, they specifically want to target rider safety, and one of their stated plans for doing so was to fit under-run barriers on armco, not pull out the armco and fit WRB's.
Given how cost-conscious they typically are, if WRB's were the better option (certainly they're the cheaper option), don't you think that they'd take it?
I'd rather slide along a double railed bit of armco, or a concrete barrier than a WRB barrier with its stanchions everywhere. Of course, single rail armco isn't a whole lot better, but if you were in the position to attempt to deflect yourself somehow, you'd want to be pushing onto a smooth bit of railing and trying to avoid the stanchions underneath, rather than a wire rope barrier which is all stanchions and wire.
Don't call me sunshine. Talking down to people as if you are superior just makes you look like a fool.
Again, PROVE WRB's have actually done this.
And I don't mean "a mate of a mate's best mate heard from someone".
Have a good hard look at an Armco railing. It has posts under it too, teh posts that are the big issue with WRB's.
For christ's sake, WRB's WILL NOT slice someone up. The wires are way too large. To slice someone up on a WRB would require tremendous speed, and it would still be blunt trauma, as teh wires are so close together as to act as a single surface. That is how they were designed.
A human, even at 100kgs, is not going to force the wires apart, so there is no chance of people's arms and legs being ripped off.
An Armco will take your head off in much the same way as a WRB if you are stupid enough to hit one square on and sit your head up just so.......
Everyone is up in arms about these things, saying there should be under barriers etc, but Armcos have a larger gap under them, and just as deadly (maybe more deadly, WRB posts are designed to fail fairly readily)steel posts under them, and exist in FAR larger quantities.
If this hysteria wasn't so widespread, it'd be fcuken funny. I wonder if riders carried on like this when Armcos were introduced?
DO some research. There is a lot of information on WRB's out there at teh moment, none of it says peple get sliced up like eggs.
i am a fool. relax :grin:
and if you read my post, i clearly said i was simply stating my opinion, just as you seemed to be. i said i dont have any research to back it up too. i really cbf atm to find any either.
we obviously have different opinions,
so be it.
An "Opinion" is the refuge of the person who's "Theory" has just been shown to be full of shit.
Sry dude... just statin' a fact.
hmmm, the more i think about it, the more im seeing the likelihood that little difference would result whether a rider hit the "egg slicers" or an armco. both will fundamentally result in blunt tramua, especially if the rider is wearing protective gear, which does help disperse the kinetic energy. although the post on WRBs are considerably smaller than armcos, ballistically this would theoretically make a difference, as the same kinetic energy is applied over a considerablly smaller area, increasing the chance on a lacteration over defeflection, but the only real way to study it would be clinical comparisons.
from what i have seen, its purely luck of the draw whether you walk away, get carted off in an ambulance, or put in a body bag. ive seen some massive crashes, riders going off ravines at triple digit speeds, and suffering little more than a mild concussion, and ive seen slow speed (ie 40km/h) accos where the rider was killed. make sense of that.
MY only beef with WRB's is if there's enough room for a bike and rider to slide underneath them completely and leave the road in favour of scrub: such that no-one knows an accident has occurred, and aid takes that much longer to arrive.