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N/A | National Road safety - a different angle

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Glekichi, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. I know that this would take some sort of miracle to have implemented, but hear me out.

    Chef, I think it was, posted stats showing the road fatality rates around the world. Japan had better stats than us, and having lived there for 6 odd years I have been trying to think of things they do differently that we could implement - things that aren't too restrictive that have a positive benefit for all road users!

    There it was, staring me in the face. Lots of people ride 50cc scooters over there. Why? There are lots of factors, but one of the biggest factors is that to get a car licence one needs to be 18 years old, while a 50cc licence can be gained from 16 years of age.

    This means a LOT of people ride scooters for a year or two before going on to drive a car, and that's good for a lot of reasons. There are so many benefits to this system it is impossible to list them all, but I'll mention a few that I can think of.

    Firstly, road craft can be learnt in a low mass, low inertia vehicle with very little risk of hurting anyone else in the event of an accident. The risk of injury at scooter speeds are also minimal.

    The extra attention required on the road on a scooter will likely improve the driver's scan for hazards when they eventually do get into a car.

    Teenagers aren't going to have four friends in the back of their scooter to try to impress.

    The large number of bikes and scooters on the road also means vehicles are effectively forced to be more aware of them.

    Car drivers are also more likely to be a past or present rider, adding to the extra awareness and therefore safety.

    Riding a scooter at the early stage of ones motoring career is likely to lead to one riding a scooter or bike throughout ones life. The flow on benefits outside of safety also likely include reduced congestion, reduced pollution, and reduced carbon footprint.

    So, what do you guys think?
    • Like Like x 4
  2. My only problem is that 50s are in that grey area where they are not really fast enough to keep up with traffic, but not allowed in cycle lanes.

    Other than that, I think it would be great.
  3. Many Australian jurisdictions do have 16 or around as the Minimum age for Scooter/Motorcycle learners. Victoria and Queensland are the exception. I think it is a good idea to encourage younger people on to bikes and scooters. In fact no-one should be able to have a car license until they have held a scooter or motorcycle license. It would make the general road user far more aware of bikes.

    Do you know anything about the Japanese licensing system, training, probation periods etc?
  4. In NSW, you can get your learners on the bike at 16 and 9 months and ride alone. You can't do that in a car till your Ps. Very few teens take the bike though. Wonder why? Maybe needs to be more time till you get your car p plates.
  5. You know I've always thought this to be a good idea..
    I think I've mentioned it in the past on a different thread...

    It would take years for the positive effect to get thru but I believe it would end up with a better understanding, changin attitudes and more awarness of two wheeled vehicles..

    Their lower speed could easily be catered for by restricting the type of roads where they can be used..
    Of course an added benefit would be if some sort of a basic license and knowledge of road rules would be required to ride them.
    Lets face it, how many kids at 16 wouldn't jump to the chance of legally riding a scooter or bike with a 50cc engine to school?

    I believe it's still the case in many european countries..
  6. I like this a lot, this would be a good thing to push.
  7. Actually as a correction to the above, a motorcycle licence is also available from 16 years.
    The scooter licence involves a practical training course and a written test. I imagine this is of a similar standard to our bike learners licence.
    The bike license allows use of up to 400cc (no restricted period) but is much more thorough and involves weeks of training. The large bike licence for 400cc+ bikes needs a rider to be 18 and involves a lot more training again.

    If Japan and other European countries with lower fatality rates than us (with more riders!) use this system, it shouldn't actually be too hard to feed our beuracrats with some "worlds best practice" and get something like this implemented!
  8. double post removed - please delete
  9. Hollie Black from Australian Scooter foundation made these kind of points at the RSC inquiry.

    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
  10. I like the theory but the sceptic at me sees what many Sydney drivers are like and expects carnage before any progress. I don't think any pollies would like that on their hands.
  11. What was the response to the points robsalvv?
  12. Bloody brilliant Glekichi.

    For mine fifteen would be the right age. Or even younger.
    I personally think road common sense should be taught in school from the age of twelve.
    Before puberty and teenage apathy has had a chance to set in and block what good you are trying to teach them.

    Everyone knows you need to start at a very early age to be good at something. For it to be a natural thing to do. To excel at it.

    The positives of it are numerous.
    1. More riders on the road. More awareness of us. More exposure. More understanding.

    2. They learn while they are still a learning sponge and have the brain capacity to take it all in. Combine this with the common sense theory they have been learning for the last three years it has to produce a better, safer kind of rider/driver. Education not legislation.

    3. Maybe if they think a kid might be under that helmet. SMIDSY might think before SMIDSYing. So I guess 3 is empathy, Understanding and caring from the general public.

    Glekichi for federal transport minister. Go Glekichi.
  13. Ha. Sorry mate but working in the industry and knowing a thing or two about transport automatically disqualifies me from the role!

    Sarcasm aside I have a whole lot of transport related ideas, mostly linked to my time in Japan. I just don't think I could ever be politically correct enough to be a pollie.
  14. Send them through to the NTC.

    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
  15. lower fatals with more riders, speaks for itself, what's not to like.

    high time we did adopt worlds best practices, because no matter how they try to spin it, ours simply are'nt working and real lives are at stake.

    someone mentioned in another thread how the eyes of the world are on us when we host events like the Philip Isle gp.
    and how the embarrassing the publicly funded approach to road safety here is.
  16. i am going to raise these points with my local member. i think the only way we have any chance of these sort of good ideas to get through is if everyone tells the politicians that they are good ideas. so I think, a bunch of us should all send emails to the appropriate authorities outlining in our own words these ideas and why these ideas are good. we might see some action.
    perhaps someone can start by writing up a list of who we should write to.
  17. Similar rules apply in Europe. I know that in Germany you can ride scooters from age 16, up to 80cc. That gives you reasonable options and you can also keep up with the traffic flow. Those 'bikes' are not allowed on the freeways (for obvious reasons).

    I fully support such a system. My daughter is 17 and would love it to be able to get on any type of motorised two wheeler. Living in Melbourne, unfortunately she'll have to wait another year.
  18. Thanks guys. Nice to know a lot of others share my opinion.
    Well, Kernel, how about these guys?
    I'm new to riding in Australia, and even more so to the various groups that seem to have their fingers in the political pie that is road safety, but the above looks like one place to start anyway.
  19. They took the comments on board. It's in the months ahead, when sifting through the mountain of information that they will decide it's value.

    Personally, getting a 16yo on a moped, a 50cc PTW with legitimate suspension and brakes, which are only good enough for suburban non freeway travel, is worth thinking about. They could be given access to bicycle lanes as they don't go much faster than a hammering "Cadel / TdF" type cyclist.
  20. Well, well!

    The South Australian government is taking opinions on some changes including a minimum age of 18 for provisional licences, which would effectively put into place what this thread is all about!


    I have submitted my comments on this, including the thoughts that they should ENCOURAGE motorcycle and scooter use for all motorists under the age of 18.

    Here is your chance fellas. (and ladies)