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VIC Right turn red light Camera 5am no traffic?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Jem, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. #1 Jem, Nov 26, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012

    Well the story goes, sitting in the right turning lane on Warrigal Road turning into North Road this morning at 5.15am. Lights go through 2 sets of changes but no green arrow as the sesnors have obviously not picked up the bike.

    3rd change happens and again no green turning arrow, as I am the only thing on the road going anywhere I go - flash flash is the result! Did not look around to see if there was a camera there when I pulled up.

    Yes I know I have done the wrong thing so lets not go there. My questions are -

    Has anyone else been in the same situation and did you contest it/right a letter asking for review?

    How did you go?

    Anyone got any ideas about what tactics I should try?

    Points are not an isue it is the $300+ that is going to hurt.

    Cheers Jeremy
  2. hope you don't get a fine , Jem. in new south wales you're allowed to go on the red if you've been through two cycles. or something like that . but that doesn't really help you cuz you're in victoria , so I hope it's all okay . cheers
  3. Eh I've gotten off the bike and pushed pedestrian crossing signals then jumped back on te bike inched forward then hard on the brakes to put force to the ground...but no camera? I won't be there for long - I love riding around 2-5am - so I find myself in this predicament often (minus the getting caught by the camera part)
  4. If an infringement notice comes in, just write them a nice letter explaining what you just wrote. I'd like to think they'd have leniency in this case.

    I definitely wouldn't accept the fine though - you're paying for the inadequacies in the 'system' otherwise.
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  5. Also. ^^^^^^what he said^^^^^
  6. Given you stated points are not issue, I assume you have a very good driving record. Make sure you point this out in a letter.

    Also it may help to have your letter witnessed by a JP. Being willing to back your version of events with a 3 year gaol term may help them to accept them.
  7. If you're using a JP, you should put your statement in Statutory Declaration format (buy or download a form) and refer to it in your letter. The JP signature doesn't mean you're telling the truth, it just gives a more legal basis for your statement. All the JP is doing is witnessing your signature being added to the form. Essentially you're saying this is what you'd say in court and lying in a Stat Dec is like lying in court.
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  8. I would point out that the signalling equipment is defective and that the defect is likely to cause people to be improperly detained.
    After X cycles of the lights I reasonably concluded that the signalling equipment was in fact defective, and that I was likely to be detained indefinitely. Consequently I took action to minimise the harm caused to me by the defective equipment.

    Something like that.

    That way if they don't drop the fine you can file a small claim against the RTA for economic loss caused by their defective equipment.
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  9. Sydneysiders, reminder that this is a VICTORIAN thread :p

    An official warning will not be given for red-light, mobile phone, seatbelt or other serious road safety offences, unless the existence of an emergency situation can be proved, & even then there is no guarantee.

    No tactics available. You only have options, which are as follows:

    1. pay in full
    2. nominate another person as rider
    3. elect to go to court
    4. apply for extension to make payment
    5. apply to provide payment in instalments

  10. Have a search through www.trafficlaw.com.au and see whether a similar incident has cropped up. I suspect, due to strict liability - which is stupid in this case since the lights wouldn't trigger, you're sort of stuffed.

    Try the letter (knowing full well they may reject it per Justus's note) and then objection and court. No reasonable magistrate will pin the fine on you, given the circumstances. Your case would be aided by an (are you ready for this) ...FOI request to get the maintenance records of that sensor loop. Report the intersection to Vicroads, that it's not triggering on MC and by the time they get around to forwarding the FOI information, there'll be a nice bit of maintenance recorded to support your case. :)
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Thanks Justus, I knew those were the available options was more looking to see if anyone else had a similar case and had tried to see what a court though about it v's a camera

    Rob - love it; espescially the FOI bit......

    Cheers Jeremy
  12. I was stuck at a set of lights for about 3 cycles. I ended up going straight, did a u-turn and turned left...took all up 30s longer but didn't get flashed.

    Did you stop the bike in the sensor box or just in front of it? If in front, then you will never trigger the lights. I've seen cars stop past the box just as it went red and they didn't get to turn either.
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  13. Hi phongus,

    Thanks for the tip about the sesor box had not thought of that.

    No way to go straight at this set of lights if you are in the far right of the two turning lanes so unfortunately not an option.

    I have to use this intersection every Monday morning so will have to figure out a solution that works.

    Cheers Jeremy
  14. If the light doesn't change, click into neutral and put the sidestand down. The light should change as soon as the metal of your bike touches the ground.

    Ps the neutral part is to stop the bike cutting out ie side stand switch - incase you were wondering...
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  15. I usually line the wheels up parallel to the sensor box on the road, really close to the line but not on top of it. It seems to work every time. Just don't ride past or stop in front of it. You do sit about 1.5m from the stop line though, so it does look weird to onlookers, but at least the lights change!
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  16. Here's just a very quick bit of advice.

    Assuming you're doing the ride tomorrow morning as you're on your way to work, leave ten minutes earlier. When you get to the intersection look for the signal control box (I think it's near the Dan Murphy's there now - the old Safeway). Note the number and report the faulty signal - noting when you make the report the fact the camera is also still triggering (note I said triggering, not that it got you). Add this to you stat dec/contest notice etc with the reference number for the complaint.

    It's not a sure thing, but you need to support your case. Also it's quite a legitimate complaint - make 'em do something for $660 they smack us each year, it is supposed to encompass some road maintenance.

    This is not entirely true. It is the existence of extenuating circumstances - often only accepted as an emergency, however not limited to just this.

    Interestingly enough the general question if caught by the Police is if you have 'lawful reason' for breaking a law - there is a reason for this.

    I'm not saying how the OP will go with my previous post regarding reporting the faulty lights, as I can see other optons for a rider in the same circumstance, but given his situation that is how I would handle it.

    As for the above regarding extenuating circumstances and lawful reasons - I'm not here for an argument and I won't discuss it publicly, however if you disagree with this by all means I'm happy to discuss it privately. Just pre-empting being told I'm wrong :happy:
    • Like Like x 2
  17. H
    Thanks for the advice, reported it as faulty via their web site today but will make the call as well.

    Cheers Jeremy
  18. Generally, an official warning will not be given for red-light offences unless the existence of an emergency situation can be proved. However, you can still apply to Victoria Police for an internal review of its decision. Each application for an official warning is judged on a case-by-case basis.

    Refer to the Victoria Police and/or Fines Victoria website.

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  19. Strange how the traffic lights are not sensitive to pick up a bike, but a red light camera is, not surprised, hope it works out for you in your favor.
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  20. Same message, different state:

    Q: I have never been reported before. Can you show some leniency because of this?
    A: No.

    Speeding, disobeying a red traffic light or entering a level crossing when warning lights are operating are considered to be offences that endanger life.

    Link: South Australia Police.

    If traffic lights are not working as they should due to inefficient in-pavement detectors, a potential defence exists (if the matter was going to Court). OP would have to establish that (a) to proceed with caution was a reasonable action to take and (b), that the traffic signals were not working properly.

    It is a matter for the Court to determine as Police will not give an official warning.