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Riding is safer than driving!

Discussion in 'Research, Studies, and Data' started by Dray, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. Hey folks,
    we've all read the news and it's drummed up sensationalism, spinning a story on the dangers motorcycling. I for one am fed up and I am putting together an argument to advocate how wonderfully safe riding a motorcycle can be.
    I do need your help!
    I've googlized for data but the info I've found falls short of my needs.
    The information on government websites tends to be glossy and dumbed down with a veiled agenda and doesn't present all the facts.
    I'm chasing raw, empirical data on motorcycle accident statistics. I'd prefer it from Australia but anywhere reputable will do.

  2. Don't bother, we may have less accidents per Km travelled, but you will never win an argument that crashing on a motorcycle is safer. We would need to crash 7 times less or something (exclude parking accidents) to even think it could be safer.
    • Like Like x 2
  3. No way it's safer mate. I think bikes are more nimble so can avoid accidents quicker than a heavier car, but risk level per km travelled is always higher on a bike.
  4. I've done almost 30000ks on the bike and maybe 10 in a cage. Those 10ks were quite depressing and therefore far more of a risk to my health/life. There you have it: 1/22000000th of a factual conclusion.
    • Like Like x 2
  5. a better study may be 'do bike riders make better car drivers'?
    • Agree Agree x 3
  6. There is a report about insurance statistics showing that to be the case somewhere on this site.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. thanks mate I will have a look for that - apologies to the OP for redirecting your topic!
    • Like Like x 3
  8. What BjpittBjpitt said. Motorcycles are not safer than cars, to argue otherwise is an exercise in futility. Yes as a rider I certainly have a better view of what is happening around me. Absolutely my motorcycle is far nimbler than a car and it can out accelerate the vast majority of cars. But it can't brake as well as a modern car and it's not as stable. Most importantly on a bike even the most innocuous incident can mean we don't survive.

    I honestly think that if motorcycling was as safe as driving a car I wouldn't ride a motorcycle. A large part of the attraction is the danger.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. I think www.msgroup.org (linked in my sig) have an article where they argue that American riders make fewer mistakes on the roads but pay for them more dearly.

    In Australia, KSI per kilometres travelled is higher for bikes than for cars, even if you allow for the woefully terrible VKT estimate for bikes. That doesn't measure mistakes, but recorded deaths and injuries. Being a mobile vulnerable road user that is subject to their own errors, errors of other road users and hazards from road condition/engineering and weather, we'll never get KSI's down sufficiently to ever compete with the KSI's generated by the crumplezoned cocooned air bag curtained occupancy safety cell of motorcars.

    I put up a graph recently showing that victorian rider fatality rate trend has dropped to less than a third of what it was. There's never been a safer time to ride.
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. perhaps you could focus on how much safer the car drivers could make the road for us if they paid attention? Stats can show the number of multi-vehicle accidents involving bikes versus the number of single vehicle bike accidents.

    also focus on the fact that NONE of this years VIC fatalities have involved a rider filtering
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  11. There is certainly no arguing with the fact that riders are more vulnerable than drivers. We get hammered by the laws of physics because we don't have that safety cell around us and while good gear really helps it can't work miracles. Look at the number of car drivers who do monumentally stupid things and walk (or more usually run) away. Riders don't tend to be so lucky. However I do suspect that the statistics are a little skewed towards the scary side by the preponderance of riders killing themselves who really don't fit the normal population of licensed road riders. Take out the alcohol and drug affected, the unregistered, unlicensed or suspended, the thieves riding stolen bikes and the accidents in off road environments and I suspect that the normal road riding, licensed population suddenly don't appear to be in quite such mortal danger as before. We still have a higher risk than cars, but I suspect that it wouldn't be anywhere near as high as it is based on the stats for all riders.

    If you look at the stats shown in some studies, a significant proportion of fatalities were over the limit for alcohol. Even more were below the limit but had some alcohol in their system. Clearly even a little alcohol has a significant impact on our willingness to push the risk envelope as well as on our control skills once we do it. Riders who drink and ride are at very high risk. Stats are based on the entire population so they get skewed by the inclusions of the riders whose riding is extreme. Blind Freddy can see that riding pissed is a bad idea. If you don't do it you can skew your own personal risk statistics considerably in your favor. Likewise if you tend not to ride ton up through built up areas you are in a different risk category to those who do. It still doesn't make it as safe on a bike as in a car but you do have some control over your own level of risk taking behavior and how far you stretch the envelope when you ride.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Please... don't make the mistake that happens way too frequently these days... deciding what the conclusion should be before investigating the matter, and only searching for 'evidence' that supports your biased conclusion. We get enough of that rubbish from the TAC, government, the media, education, etc...
    • Agree Agree x 4
  13. Selling my car and buying a motorcycle has made me healthier - I cant take my motorcycle through the McDonalds drivethrough so now I dont get Mcdonalds.
    • Funny Funny x 8
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Getting access to the raw data is only half the problem, understanding statistical analysis well enough to actually look at complex interrelationships and be able to show clearly what is statistically valid and what is just noise is harder again. Having a chat with the Motorcycle Council or your state rider group is a good starting point as they have often got better access to source data and some experience in analyzing it as well.
  15. Maybe focus on motorcycling being healthier than driving.
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  16. Excellent points. Similar ones are made in an article I have had linked in my sig for nearly a decade - the bottom line is don't be average.

    Motorcycle Tips and Techniques "Beat the odds - Let your riding improve your safety odds."
    • Like Like x 1

  17. QFT
  18. Thanks robsalvv, I'll have to have a look at the linked article.