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Rider Training, Track Days and Insurance

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Bravus, May 24, 2010.

  1. Guess this might have been asked before, but a quick search didn't show it up.

    As far as I can tell, insurance companies are fairly keen on rider training courses - as they should be - and in some cases even give premium discounts if you've been to one.

    On the other hand, for track days there seems to be either a large extra excess in some cases, or no cover at all in others.

    Given that I'm not likely to have a track bike in the foreseeable future, my day-to-day ride would always be what I would take to the track.

    I know the two things are quite different with quite different purposes and activities, but wouldn't it just make sense to keep doing training days, up to the highest levels, rather than track days, from an insurance perspective?

    (And of course, if any of the assumptions above are broken, let me know - basically just drawing on the community's experience.)

  2. Big diff between track days and an advanced training course. If you're not willing to take your roadie out on the track on a track day (I'm not) then that either leaves you courses or a track bike.

    Track days = self insured.
  3. I've had mixed responses from Swann regarding insurance cover on the track for training courses. On the phone and in email I've been told that any course by an organisation accredited by VicRoads or the equivalent state authority (such as HART or Stay Upright) is covered. According to this, the HART and Stay Upright Advanced courses that are held at Broadford would be covered. But I've also seen a clause in an email that said something along the lines of "in any venue used only for training", which would seem to exclude Broadford.

    I don't know exactly how to clear this up, as each person I've spoken with was equally sure of themselves. The one thing they all agreed on was that California Superbike School at PI was not covered. I'd love to do the CSS, but maybe when I've saved enough to cover the cost of a stack if it should happen.
  4. It's my guess that insurance companies are shy of any course that is a track focused course, eg CSS generally doesn't rate as an approved course, however HART and STAYUPRIGHT advanced courses might be approved because they are wholistic overall skills type courses... even though they might happen at a track.
  5. One of my insurance companies will cover my bike for training days but they do have an additional excess for it. The other excludes all track events of any nature.

    Track days they don't want to know.
  6. Interesting because Swann advised me unequivocally that I was covered to do the Superbike School at Philip Island and that my file was noted according to our discussion. I would have still done the course if they'd said I wasn't covered....prob just a little slower :)
  7. Swan did THAT!, Jiembo!!...Awwwwwesome! - about time these insurance companies got their heads out of the sand and realized that professionally structured training whether it's on a track or not, is going to benefit them a hell of alot.

    In fact....a smart Insurance company would have it's OWN on track training courses, and not insure anyone who did'nt pass their own training levels.

    They'd save heaps, and we'd have less new riders wobbling around on bikes, not knowing which way is up (Not their fault - they are trying to learn - just that they are trying to learn amongst the cagers and the farking nitwits that drive alot of them)

    My 20cents... :)
  8. Thanks all, that's made it... well, not clearer, but the fog is better rendered... :p
  9. I agree with this.

    Too many issues on track for an insurance company to muddle through. As soon as they get their teeth into track days then questions like liability, who caused what damage, regulations to yardstick culpability, and more and more and more rules all start coming out of the woodwork at the exact place we go to get away from them!

    Better to leave your insurance at home when you get onto the track, even for a training day.

    As well as that, there are usually 3, 4, 5, or more bikes down at almost every track day which has lass than 160 riders - can you imagine the premium we'd have to carry for our road bikes to cover that kind of cost?
  10. Im with QBE and they cover the level 1 california superbike school course as well

    (but only level 1)

  11. You could hire a bike to do the track day .I think PI charge around $375 for the day not sure what the insurance cost would be if any extra $$$.
  12. From memory I think the excess is about $4000 for some of the hire bikes or you are liable for repairs up to $4000. Something like that.

    Just found this as an example:

    Bike only= $349*
    Riding gear (1 piece or all)= $65*
    Package cost for bike & riding gear= $399

    * This includes fuel and regular tyre wear, however an additional tyre levee may be imposed if tyre wear is considered excessive. A $1,000 deposit is required for every bike hiring, with an additional $3,500 excess applicable. Repairs are charged per accident to a maximum of $4,500. A $750 excess is applicable for every riding gear hire. This figure will be pre-authorised on your credit card 48 hours prior to your event. Alternatively, cash holdings for the above amount can be organised for the day of the event. You must provide a current unrestricted motorcycle license on the day of your hiring.
  13. there's a big excess

    $1,000 deposit is required for every bike hiring, with an additional $3,500 excess applicable. Repairs are charged per accident to a maximum of $4,500.

  14. $350 a day would be good if you didnt crash. Ever.

    If you toast a rear each trackday, there's 200+ already.
  15. I called my insurance company for my advanced stay upright course and they said I would be covered if the training provider is a ....registered training company with the NSW RTA etc.

    See here for the info.

    I don't think superbike school ,is registered with the RTA .
    But call to double check.
  16. Just spoke to eBikeInsurance, FYI. Their product disclosure says "We do not cover any loss, damage or liability incurred whilst the insured motorcycle is being:
    4. used on any track, raceway or other area, assigned permanently or otherwise as a track or raceway, unless for the exclusive
    purpose of rider training and whilst under the direct supervision of an accredited, licensed riding instructor."

    So CSS is out, and they hold "direct supervision" to mean 1 on 1 with an instructor, not 1:4 like Stay Upright was.

    I also had a long conversation with a lovely lady at AllSure, who is chasing up coverage of Stay Upright and CSS with their motorcycle insurance underwriter. Will update when I hear more.
  17. No it is not. DO NOT GET CAUGHT OUT BY THAT LIST. You have to read the fine print at the top of that page.

    The following rider training courses are approved by QBE. You will need to check your policy schedule and PDS to check if your policy covers rider training.

    I have checked on a few occasions, trying to get a positive answer. Alas, the answer from Western QBE has always been: "You are not covered for any activity on a track, or at any training course."

    I was unable to get a clear definition of what their "Approved Rider Training" meant, but possibly it is used for premium discounts if you have completed approved training.
  18. If you are on the road and you get collected by another vehicle then it's either your fault or the other vehicles. There are rules that govern liability in almost all road scenarios.

    On track - even for a training day, all those rules go out the window and you wear the cost of your own bike whether or not an incident is your fault.

    Now how does an insurance company fit into this picture? Will they agree to unconditionally wear the cost of your damage?

    No matter the advise I got over the phone, I'd be very dubious about an insurance company paying you for any track damage.
  19. with the change to the repairable write off scheme coming ( I think ) there may be a plethora of bikes available that have superficial cosmetic damage available cheap for use as track bikes -- probably a lot cheaper than a 3500 insurance excess