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Rider training and licencing insufficient

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by pro-pilot, May 29, 2007.

  1. Adding to the debate of riding bikes in / out of class and licencing, it would appear that the legal requirements here in Aus. (most states) is actually very poor at producing good riders, or indeed weeding out those who should not be on the road.

    Having done my training many moons ago in the UK, I can tell u the requirements there are extremely more stringent. 12 to 15 months of "waiting" out a licence class, does not cut it. Nor frankly does hooting up and down city streets with a 250, 750, 1000 cut it.

    There needs to be a graduated program where people can progress (as fast as there roadcraft and skills will allow) in their own time, and demonstrate capability on road and track to get access to various classes of machines.

    Lets face it many of these superbikes are useless in the hands of commuters, even if they have been riding for 20 years.

    A lot hoons and yahoo's would be around if a graduated course and series of tests applied to get a cbr1000.

    By the time you did all courses, you would have had many hours on a track, and demonstrate how to corner at 150KPH+. At least your exposure on th road would mean you have much better control of the machine and your saftey.

    Honestly, if someone can't corner with a sports bike on a track at high speed, they have no business owning one. :!:

    Think you would see a lot less deaths on the road as an outcome of this.

    Now thats my daily rant!

    Your thoughts! :)

  2. And yet again, my answer will be, who will pay $5k to get a licence, and which politician will commit career suicide and try to introduce such a scheme?
    Fact is, the system will not change as people kick up a stink when anything costs money, and 95% of the population think any form of licence is a right they are owed by society, no matter how stupid, ignorand or unskilled they may be.

    Regards, Andrew.
  3. very true. But paying 5k for a licence should'nt be an issue if your going out to by a 20-25k superbike.

  4. 5k for a license.
    Wake up. what a joke. As if paying money is going to make a person a better rider once they're in the saddle.
    Plenty of people have great track skills and still behave like f-tards on the street. And cornering at 150kph on a track is going to be as much use as a sack full of busted a*seholes when some cager pulls out from a side street in peak hour.

    I'll be the first to agree that licensing (in Vic) is a joke, but that's due more to the fact that most of the course providers are merely teaching people how to pass the test and not ride, it IS a business after all and students passing gets more customers in the door.

    More intensive training, yes. Graduated. Bollocks. I think, if you actually checked the stats (Vic at least) you'd be surprised at just HOW MANY unlicensed riders are the ones that are getting scraped off the road. Making it harder to get a license isn't going to stop mohammed going to the local yammie dealer for a fully sick R1or a kwaka dealer for that sick zx10/12.

    Just my .02c


  5. 5k on top of a 20-25k superbike is an extra 25-20%... not a small amount at all...

    I agree there should be more training, but the costs associated with it needs to be affordable and the benefits obvious before a government will implement it.
  6. Sounds highly unfeasible.
    why not start your own superbike training courses then.

    The govt. is not going to massively increase their subsidising of training courses anytime soon.
  7. MOD: Remark removed because this person firstly has serious grammatical issues and is also insulting to poms.

    licensing in aus aus is fine

    its cause of jokers like u the goverment is babysitting us,
    "if it only saves one life blah blah blah blah"
    shit happens welcome to earth

    how about they put graphic warning labels on bikes like cigaret packets
  8. Pro-Pilot, didn't you just get pwned by a scooter the other day? I hear them California Superbike courses are pretty good if you wanna refine them skills! (Just joking :p )

    I personally felt very underprepared for riding in traffic after doing my learners 18 months ago. My brother and his wife did about 8 hours of riding from scratch on the Q-ride course in QLD and now they are on open licences...which I think is totally nuts!

    It's a tough learning curve but I like that. It weeds out the incompetent, moronic and weak! Huzzah Australia!

    Mind you,
    that's going way too far... :roll:
  9. well, always looking to refine my skills (need to get the number of that scooters instructor) :LOL: . Still classify myself as a novice in many respects.

    As for 5k on training say over several years, think that it might be a bit high (even an cpl of grand is sufficient). When put into perspective on insurance of a 20k bike takes care of about 2 years! Even a new 600 comes in at about 1500 a year, 1000 about 2k. Ride days at Philip Island are about 350 a day, plus insurance and tyres, servicing etc.

    hmm, nobody ever said owning bikes / riding was cheap.

    That 5k does seem to start blending in!

    As for pommy stuff, no offence here as im not english :grin: just did my course in UK.

    But each to their own!
  10. Agreed, that remark was not needed.
    Besides, It's not his fault he's a pom :p

    He has a valid point.

    I tend to agree with the majority of his comments.

    Here in Victoria you spend a day riding around a basketball court, then you do some figure 8's, emergency stops, counter-steers, right turn, left turn, well done, here is your ticket, go play in the traffic.

    That is a crock of shit and should be improved. Getting your learners for a car requires 120 hours of supervised teaching yet for your bike learners, <8 hours.

    There are some racers out there that failed their licence tests several times before they were unleashed on the road.
    The track is way different, next to no obstacles to hit, everyone going in the same direction, soccer mums are in the parking lot spectating, etc, etc. As mentioned, being able to hook a bike into turn 1 at 150km/h aint going to matter a shit when you are on the road.
  11. Yup, which is why I'm trying to organise a ride for new riders in such a way that we can teach em a few things about riding.
  12. Germany it costs a couple of grand for your license, don't know the exact figure but its exy when I was in the states the German exchange student :wink: told me all about it and how crap and slow people drove in the states hahaha
  13. Yeah I gave a lift to a german backpacker not long ago and he said it cost him about 2500 Euro. He also said someone failed while he was there and had to pay the money again to repeat. :eek: He also rode a gpx 250 and said they can only ride about 3-4months of the year because of black ice on the road when it gets colder.
  14. Firstly, no offence here as I am a pom but ive been here for 7yrs so im used to it by now..... :)

    I do agree that getting a bike licence here is too easy.

    When I did my L's, there was a guy that could hardly ride the bike.
    He failed the test, waited until everyone had finished their test, then he was allowed to retake the test and still messed up, but he done a little better and was much closer to getting round the track on the bike so they passed him !
  15. People are always going to be crap riders/riders if they're not interested in driving/riding their vehicle.

    In my opinion they should make the MOST day alot more advanced (they refused to answer my question about counter steering because it would "confuse the others"), since they currently just go over the prelearner stuff.

    THEN they should copy the rider training scheme and give it to drivers.
  16. Autobahns!!! I wonder how many noobs they'd be scraping off the autobahns if their licensing restrictions were any less stringent?
    ...actually it wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot of people ending up in a bad way even if they were experienced (who could stop themselves from giving in to the temptation?)
  17. Having lived and ridden in Germany, the accident rate on the autobahn's is surprisingly low. Almost in line with all other major hyways around the world. Lots of bikers hit 250 - 270KPH, but mind you there are not so many tight bends.
    Most people are very good on the Autobahn, probably has something to do with not always having to watch the speedo or getting frustrated with slower moving traffic.
    However, many times the Autobahn has lots of traffic that slows it down a lot.
  18. Being able to ride fast on the track has no real application on the road for most people. The skills that keep you alive on the road are hazard perception skills - and unfortunately that's not what gets taught.

    Hazard perception skills are not just about being aware that the idiot in the Excel is going to change lanes without indicating, or that pedestrian is going to step off against the lights - it's also about being able to read the road surface and knowing what the hazards are likely to be on a blind corner.

    Anyone can learn to go around a corner quickly and learn the physical control of a bike - the real skills that keep you alive lie in knowing when NOT to go around a corner quickly. Unfortunately it's something that tends to come only with experience.

    There is some hope that this type of perception can be taught though, with the advent of more advanced simulators there may be some scope to teach this before people are let loose on the roads. While the current crop of simulators still leave a lot to be desired, they will improve.

    On a related note:
    We had some figures presented at VMAC recently that came out of some of the hazard perception stuff that MUARC were doing with the simulators (some of the people here participated I believe).

    Not only were riders picking up more hazards than non-riders, they were anticipating them up to 4 seconds earlier.
  19. Priced proper tuition in any accredited field lately mate? The sort of training people advocate here would run to that no problems..........

    Regards, Andrew.
  20. I've already spent over 1k on training...and I intent to spend more in the future.

    Oh I agree that the current system, although better than way back when, still lacks in some basic skill areas. Some of these skills do need to be learnt at high speeds, in a closed environment. The only place I know to do that is a race track.