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Rider Licencing & progression

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Tack, May 27, 2005.

  1. I don't get this rider training and licencing system here in Victoria. It just doesn't make any sense.

    After you have completed a pretty basic course and test, you get your learners. This allows you to ride out in traffic for 15 months!

    After 3 months, you can go for another pretty basic test and get a 'p' or restricted licence. This new licence allows you to do exactly the same things as an L licence holder except in 12 months you can get a bigger bike, drink alcohol and carry a pillon.

    Question is: Why?

    What has a restricted license holder learnt that a learner licence holder hasn't in 12 months?

    What difference does another easier test make??

    Then, after 12 months a restricted licence holder can go out and buy a bike that has 4 times the power (or more) then the 250 that he had to ride.

    This system is stupid. I don't think it makes for better riders at all.
  2. You need basic control skils to pass the first test (plus theory). You then put this into practice and prove you can confidently ride a bike (second test). It is then assumed after 1 year of riding you are able to control a bigger bike. I think that is the theory.

    However I think there should be harder tests, including in traffic tests.
  3. remember the old system was show up at the rta, get your license and off you go.

    Remember a mates dad telling me for his test the instructor told him to ride around the block. If he made it back in one piece he passed. He actually fell off around the corner, picked the bike back up and made it back. He passed.
  4. Lets be honest, at the end of the day it's up to you how much riding you do.
    Yes, you can have a licence in 3 months total, then in another 12 months you have no restrictions, but who is too say you have ridden in the past 12 months at all, but the restriction will still be removed.

    So really you can jump on a big bike with only 2 tests or rides, learners and licence. I think there should be some kind of addtional skills test etc that should be completed for removal of restrictions.

    Another thing is, if you are picked up riding a larger bike than 260cc in your restrction period the fine is only $110 and NO demerit points.
  5. This can be an endless thread really and we all know that no system is perfect and will in some respects be flawed. It must also be remembered that a "learner permit" is a permit to learn. The test is to cover very basic skills so that in the opinion of vicroads and TAC you are competent to learn. The licence test is of course designed with the theory that it involves more advanced riding techniques. The fact that they are at a slow speed is thought to represent the same skill regardless of speed. Whilst some may say that the licence test is simple, you would be surprised how many people fail it!! The compulsory 12 month period is used in addition to the 3 month from getting your L's to in my opinion test the commitment level of people. The figures are very low (approx 12%) of people actually get their licence after having a learner permit. So in a 3 month period approx 88% of people loose interest, scared, or for whatever reason bail on continuing. Bottom line is certain areas of government do not quite support people riding motorbikes. Of course their are better systems, but they get clouded by politics.

    As a footnote however, take a look at how many motorcycle fatalities did not have a learner permit or licence.....

  6. All right tones, give us the result, I am interested. You are so right about things, there will never be a right or wrong way to please everybody. It's also an amazing figure the 88% don't go on to get thier licence, the question that needs to be answered is why don't they get thier licence.

    I am sure the car percentage would be something like 95% get thier licence.
  7. 88 %, I knew the figure was high, but not quite that level.
    So many people I have spoken with seemed to have the wind taken out of their sails.
  8. hmmm. i think most of the people who try to get their licence by just doing the test and thats it fail miserably. one of the guys on my Ps course hadn't ridden since his Ls course and failed miserably. the intsructor told me afterwards that 90% of people who try to do it like that fail. and another guy whod been commuting to work ever day since he got his Ls failed too. so it can't be THAT easy. i do agree that there should be a test before you get your full licence though. there isn't much logic there.
  9. Personal opinion, the licencing sytem is SHIT.
    What you need to prove to an accredited Vicroads tester is laughable to say the least.

    Perhaps they know about this 88% figure and are reluctant to change the system.

    Riding around a "basket ball court" is insufficient to get your learners/licence.
    During the test there are no cars, tram tracks, gravel, wildlife, potholes, blind corners, slippery line markings, red light runners shall, I continue?

    At least during your car licence you need to prove that you wont freeze/panic in real traffic out there.

    You are supervised whilst being tested for a car, why not a bike?

    I see riders out there and shake my head wondering how long they will live for. And yes I am perfect :p

    Seriously though, there should be a re-think in regards to the licencing system here in Victoria.
  10. I think that rider training should be subsidised by the government. Learners should be able to do a 3-5 day course and not spend a months wages.

    Advanced rider training the same, if not free.

    This kind of training reduces the likelihood of an accident, according to many studies, and the money the taxpayer spends on subsidising skills, they would save accordingly on funding actute and rehabilitation care for motorcycle accidents.
  11. Its their bat and ball, if you dont like it dont play.

    Having said that, just remember peeps ONCE YOUR ON YOUR OWN, THEY ARE ALL THE ENEMY...........
  12. I have had problems in locating current stats. I do remember them as being 48 or 49% but I cannot find a reference to support this. I have found one reference for 1994 and 1996 that shows 31% of rider fatalities were never licenced (never held a motorcycle licence nor motorcycle learner permit). Interestingly it also shows 93% of unlicenced motor cycle riders were at fault.

    This report is a little dated so I would not give it too much credit compared to today. Here is a link if you wanna take a look.


  13. I like to think of it as being on patrol.
  14. I agree. I had no motorbike experience when I took the Ls test and passed first go.I didnt touch a bike for 3 months and did the Ps course and passed first go.
  15. Maybe it is pure natural ability and/or luck that gets you through. I practiced my bum off on the tight U-turns and still screwed that bit on the test. Guess I just don't have that red hot ability. Still passed though as my general level of handling was deemed to be 'satisfactory' yet I know I have years of learning to go before I can be considered truly competent/skilled. To further add to the comments that the testing isn't all that stringent, one of the people on the final test day I attended stacked their bike very badly within 2 minutes of being on the range. While doing 10km/h! Lost all control, the mighty CB250 got away from her, ploughed into a fence and the rider ended up on her ass with a gash down her arm pouring blood. She still passed though once they gave her a new bike and patched her up.

    I guess it is a balance between making the licence achievable within reasonable timeframes(accounting for the lowest common denominator) and not letting anyone with a bike blindly do anything they want the first time they go riding.

  16. haha I dont think it was natural ability (unless its coz I've had plenty of experience on a pushy :p). Since we had all day to practice, I spent as much as possible on those bloody tight U-turns! took me a few before I could make it around without trying to put my foot down, but the U-turns arent tested anyway so its all good :D

    And do we really want the "lowest common denomitor" on the road with us?