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rider got hit

Discussion in 'Your Near Misses - A Place to Vent' started by Wally, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. Hi guys, I was driving my cage this morning, heading north on Main Rd Jesmond, down past Newcastle Uni, the left lane merges into the right lane, but there is a large shoulder on the left that I see plenty of riders take to pass the bottle neck (haven't tried my self yet). I was driving in the right lane when I see a rider on his naked Yamaha (don't know the exact model) ride up the empty shoulder. I then see a 4 wheel drive think he can make it as well but doesn't check his blind spot ](*,) , he side swipes the rider into the gutter. The rider tried to keep it up on the gutter/grass hill but there was a pole in front off him so he quickly stopped and the bike landed on his leg, the driver of the 4 wheel drive and some other guy stopped as well to help me lift the bike off him. He was fine, the bikes fairings was pretty scratched but he continued riding to work. It just really annoyed me that the cager didn't check and took a while to stop.

  2. main thing riders ok, others stupity one can not control!!
  3. Both rider and drivers were at fault using the shoulder to bypass traffic...................I know we all do this but shoulder shouldnt be used like this.

    The driver also didnt check his mirrors properly. Bikes however can pop up pretty quickly.............

    Whats important is that the rider is OK and that the cages actually got out to help................and not do a runner.
  4. I agree as a user of the shoulder I/we should take responsibility for our actions, but just to clarify the fault of the accident would be the vehicle crossing the unbroken line to cause the accident.

    What the rider did was illegal and is dangerous. It may have even contributed, but it wasn't the bike riders fault.

    I'm being fussy about this because we need to get it in our minds, so we can be confident when making arguments to the outside world.
  5. And i hope you don't.

    Its illegal and stupid to ride in emergency breakdown lanes.

    The reason is that vehicles can and do pull into them assuming it will be clear.

    Filtering is a grey area and i filter often, but never assume the breakdown lane is available to save me 2 minutes. Also the pigges love to sit and pull a dozen idiot bikers one after the other for riding the breakdown lane.

    /my 2c.
  6. How do you figure that there should be no fault apportioned to the rider? :-s
  7. It is illegal, but in 9 years of riding the m5 morning and afternoon I've never come close to being hit by a car. Been booked once. Been hit be a bike once, but never a car.

    And it's a lot more than 2 minutes on the M5 of a morning.

    Oh and whilst they may pull into them assuming they are clear, they can't do so legally. In crossing the unbroken line they have to give way to everything.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Who gives a toss if he has to check. he isnt going to and you might end up underneath his car.

    Red lights mean stop, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

    I would say this is equal fault to rider and driver, the rider shouldn't have been riding in the shoulder + in the 4x4s blind spot. The driver should have checked, however i can understand why he did not.
  9. The offense the rider committed was crossing the unboken line, not riding on the shoulder. It would be a prior event. It was not the action that caused the accident. The car crossing the unbroken line was the cause of the accident.

    As I noted in my first post, we should take care and responsibility when we do this. I just want it clear in riders heads, the legal fault in this case does not lie with the rider. It lays with the car driver. If a car do this, stand your ground and be prepared to argue.

    As I also noted the opposing lawyer would argue contributory actions, but we need to be prepared to argue hard the other way. This is why it needs to be clear in your head.

    Car drivers assume they can just pull into the service lane willy-nilly and all fault will disappear. It is in no way the case.
  10. Had it been an emergency service vehicle driving down the shoulder and the 4 x 4 collected it, no one would argue that is not 100% the 4 x 4s fault. It's not alright to move your vehicle anywhere that there's a chance a vehicle could legally be without checking first. Despite the rider being there illegally there is every chance that a vehicle could be there legally and so the motorist has to check.
  11. And if the car's wheel had been (or conceivably could have been) 2mm over the fog line before hand? I suggest that you do not have enough information to be making categorical statements one way or the other as to who was legally at fault. In the real world they were probably both partly to blame.
  12. OK, to attempt to interpret the Road Rules 2008 in NSW, the shoulder of a road is referred to as a 'road related area'.

    Division 3 refer to entering or leaving a road related area. Starting from Rule 75:

    75 Giving way when entering a road related area or adjacent land from a road

    (1) A driver entering a road related area or adjacent land from a place on a road without traffic lights or a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line must give way to:

    (a) any pedestrian on the road, and

    (b) any vehicle or pedestrian on any road related area that the driver crosses or enters, and

    (c) if the driver is turning right from the road—any oncoming vehicle on the road that is going straight ahead or turning left, and

    (d) if the road the driver is leaving ends at a T-intersection opposite the road related area or adjacent land and the driver is crossing the continuing road—any vehicle on the continuing road.

    Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

    Note 1. Adjacent land, continuing road, give way line, oncoming vehicle, stop line, straight ahead, T-intersection and traffic lights are defined in the Dictionary, and road related area is defined in rule 13.

    Note 2. Adjacent land or a road related area can include a driveway, service station or shopping centre—see the definitions of adjacent land and road related area. Some shopping centres may include roads—see the definition of road in rule 12.

    Note 3. For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision—see the definition in the Dictionary.

    Note 4. Part 6 applies to the driver if there are traffic lights. Rule 68 applies to the driver if there is a stop sign or stop line, and rule 71 applies to the driver if there is a give way sign or give way line.
  13. Where the rider has a problem relates to crossing the edge line on the road (which the 4WD did, too). Picking up at Rule 150:

    150 Driving on or across a continuous white edge line

    (1) A driver must not drive on or over a continuous white edge line on a road unless subrule (1A) or (18) applies to the driver.

    Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

    Note 1. Edge line is defined in the Dictionary.

    Note 2. A driver must not stop at the side of a road marked with a continuous yellow edge line—see rule 169.

    (1A) A driver may drive on or over a continuous white edge line on a road if the driver is:

    (a) overtaking a vehicle that is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal, or

    (b) driving a slow-moving vehicle, and it is necessary for the driver to drive on or over the edge line to allow the vehicle to be overtaken or passed by another vehicle, or

    (c) driving a vehicle that is too wide, or too long, to drive on the road without driving on or over the edge line, or

    (d) carrying out functions under the road transport legislation or complying with a direction given by a police officer or other person carrying out functions under the road transport legislation, or

    (e) avoiding an obstruction.

    Note 1. Centre of the road, obstruction, overtake, right change of direction signal, road transport legislation and U-turn are defined in the Dictionary.

    Note 2. Subrule (1A) (d) is not uniform with the corresponding paragraph in rule 150 of the Australian Road Rules. However, the corresponding paragraph in the Australian Road Rules allows another law of this jurisdiction to permit a driver to drive on or over a continuous white edge line on a road. Different rules may apply in other Australian jurisdictions.

    (18) A driver may drive on or over a continuous white edge line on a road for up to 100 metres if the driver is:

    (a) turning at an intersection, or

    (b) entering or leaving the road, or

    (c) entering a part of the road of one kind from a part of the road of another kind (for example, moving to or from a service road, a shoulder of the road or an emergency stopping lane), or

    (d) stopping at the side of the road (including any shoulder of the road).

    Note. Intersection and service road are defined in the Dictionary, emergency stopping lane is defined in rule 95, and shoulder is defined in rule 12.
  14. TL;DR: I agree with ibast
  15. In the real world both are to blame and yes circumstances here may be the bike was there second.

    What concerns me is the mentality that in the general case that a car can cross an unbroken line and initiate an accident and somehow they are not at fault.

    Just like a car deliberately running into you whilst filtering, guilt is not magically absolved by the prior illegal actions of another. We need to be clear about this as a group, because when a cop shows up and the other guy makes the argument, then you need a counter argument. Same goes for insurance.

    Once all that is sorted, then you can stand back and say to yourself, "Could I have handled that situation more safely?".
  16. I know what you are getting at Ibast, I just don't think this example is a good vehicle for getting that point across. :beer:

    Edit: if a cop shows up you will both be getting booked anyhow.
  17. Not if you were pulling over to put your sun glasses on.:cool:
  18. I never did it because I feared of what I saw happen to him this morning, I definitely wont be trying it.
  19. Aaaahhh, this explains the traffic jam when i was coming through the area on thurs - didnt see any accident stuff at that point, likely just residual traffic. Hope his leg is ok!!
  20. laws ect aside....the driver stopped to help...unlike the mole that cut me off and left me pinned under my bike with a broken ankle...so props to the 4wd guy ..him being a dick aside.