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QLD Rider followed by "Covert Police" for extended period of time. Then fined.

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Matt GO!!!!!!!, Sep 5, 2011.

  1. Hello fellow Netriders! I have a real-life situation I would like to share with you all, I'll get straight to it ! NO its not ME involved! :angel:

    A person I know (Let's call him "Jerry") was out for a nice Sunday bike ride.
    He was for a portion of his journey, followed by another motorcyclist let's call him "Bob".
    Location : Somerset / Wivonhoe Dam Area. Big open straights of nothingness. No one around. Dead area for most part. Not exactly a high-risk area.

    Our rider "Jerry" was riding at a pace as he saw fit. The zone was 100 and our rider was riding to his conditions leisure and experience. For some parts 100.. some parts 110.. 120 at one point !!

    Another motorcyclist on a large touring Motorcycle, his name is "Bob"...... "Bob" joined in with Jerry.

    Jerry was aware that "Bob" had started to follow him. But he had no dramas with this. He continued to ride the open roads. He cracked open the throttle and did push his bike a bit faster. Bob followed for a good solid 10 - 15 mins or more. It was a nice open straight and Jerry was able to reach 150. He had no desire to go quicker than this
    Jerry was still being followed by "Bob". "Bob" had a big white plain cruiser type bike. "Bob" followed for a good while. Matching the pace of our Sunday rider.. "Jerry".
    Our rider Jerry pulled over to stop and have a drink.

    What happened now was a bit bizarre and strange. A Grey Volkswagen Golf pulled into the car park. It parked and an occupant left the vehicle. (Let's call him Alfred)This person was a police officer. "Alfred" said something along the lines of " You have been travelling at a speed of 151kmh in a 100 zone. We have footage of this. Were you aware of the motorcyle following you ?? (wierd question imo). Jerry was given a yellow police fine and a note of "40kmh + plus =suspension.".

    "Bob" is really thinking of ticking the box on the back of his ticket and disputing this case in a court of law. As this offence is a serious one of "$933 and 8 points" and being 40kmh + therefore suspension 6 months of licence. Win or lose. He is going to fight for his case in the assumption this is police misconduct and negligence. He sees the police as "unprofessional" in conduct for following him for so very long and for not issuing pursuit once an offence immediately took place ie.. 111kmh in a 100 zone. or 120 kmh in a 100 zone. He admits to the speeding is hoping to have the charge lowered or thrown out of court.

    Some dude did an 'alleged' 151 kmh. He doesn't really have concern or want to argue this point....

    The points are ..
    • Is it okay for a "Covert" Police Vehicle to follow you? ( for an extended period of time 10 - 20 -30 minutes and more).
    • How long can they follow you for?? ( Is there a limit to how long a police person(s) can follow you? )
    • Why don't they put their siren on after an immediate offence? (IE 115 + in a 100 zone) (11kmh + and over but not over 19kmh.)
    • IF THEY DON'T HAVE A SIREN and they are "POLICE" why don't they have a siren ? (Like all police SHOULD have)
    • If the above occurred and our rider Jerry was not pulled over by the car. How long could the bike follow him for ?
    • If Bob did outrun the bike would he of gotten a letter in the mail ?
    • Is this within the ethics and code of conduct for Police of QLD.

    My personal opinion on the matter of this case is and my stance on it.
    I believe and it is to my understanding, if caught with a traffic offense (not matter what offence)
    the sirens should be put on immediately after alleged offense and the suspect prosecuted in manner see fit under the correct arbitrary laws of government.

    If I run a red light with a police officer behind me. I hope he would pull me over straight away and ask " Are you aware you ran a red light? "
    ... I might say " Yes, sorry I was in a rush." And receive a traffic infringement for failing to stop at a STOP sign.
    Or "No.. Medical Emergengy Officer!.. I'm coughing up blood..." *cough up blood*. Whatever the case may be.

    Another example. A man in a Blue Turbo-charged Nissan R34 Skyline is at a set of lights. He has a crowd so he lets out a large burnout on takeoff for approx 10 - 15 seconds.
    Isnt the police supposed to pull him over. WITHIN LIKE 10 - 20 SECONDS ?? OF THIS HAPPENING?
    or can Police just be " lol... joking I am covert policeman so I'm going to follow him for more offenses hopefully :) :) !! " and follow him racking up a big list of offenses?

    If you have and questions I can try and fill the gaps.
  2. Fight it or not you decide it will be up to the mood of the judge on the day, he might get a bigger fine (as he did do the offence and is trying to weasel out) or the cops might get yelled at and it thrown out (as they acted bad)

    Coin flip which way it goes.

    I would probably yell "come in spinner" and take my chances for a 40+
  3. Jerry just the other day was thinking of copping it on the chin and paying it. But he just got a brand new car :) He won't want that car collecting dust for 6months.

    I will make sure that I post the conclusion to this case for all to enjoy.

    And true about a bigger fine or thrown out. It can only be one of the two I guess.
  4. #4 xsploder, Sep 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    They've been doing it for sometime. Not rocket science. Much like unmarked highway cars. Pay it.


    Some of these threads are hilarious.
  5. They have 'plain clothes' bikes for this exact purpose. As far as I know they have about ten of them, and they're all different sorts of large bikes. They don't pull the offending vehicle over, because there are no lights or sirens or signage on the bike. There is a camera. What happened to your mate is typical.

    Chances of fighting that one in court, I think, very slim indeed. He's busted.

    There is NO requirement that police tell you they are police. There is NO requirement that they stop you after a small offence, if they think they're likely to get you for a much bigger one.

    I had a little run-in with a NSW cop on the Newcastle Freeway, back in '80. Sitting about 115, a car came up behind me, doing maybe 130. He settled in to follow me, a little too close for comfort. Thinking it might be a cop (it was dark) I slowed down to 100. After about a minute, I slowed down to 80. He stayed there, if anything, got a bit closer. So I went up to 120. He sped up and began to actually tailgate me. I went up to 140 and he matched that. I gradually wound it up to 155 and stayed there, because that's about as fast as I was comfortable going, under the conditions. After maybe two minutes at 155 he turned on his lights and pulled me over. He was laughing.

    "I was just talking with my mate. We wanted to see how fast it went. I'm disappointed in you, mate. I thought you could do better. I'm only going to write you up for 139 because it becomes a much bigger deal at 40 over, and we did push you along a bit. Here's your ticket."

    Thanks arsehole.

    I had another one in '97. Headed down the (Qld) SE Freeway - doing a nice legal 100, had a guy come past me in a red convertible muscle car - 1960s vintage. He was wearing big shades an a Hawaiian shirt. Sitting about 120 ~ 130, looking like he was having a good time. So I tagged along. He's weaving between lanes, where he could find a gap in the traffic, and so I came alongside and grinned at him, and it's like we're having a race - but it's a pretty lame race because we both could have tried a lot harder. Just cruising along, enjoying the day. So we come up on a plug of cars you can't weave through - all just cruising along side by side. We looked at each other, like "Road hogs, hey? What can you do?" So I waved at him, and swung into the crash lane and off up the road at about the same 130 we'd been doing, laughing to myself. A couple of k later, back down to the speed limit, doing all the decent stuff, 'TOOT -TOOT!' What the ..? Red muscle car beside me again with a guy waving his wallet at me like there's something important about it. It has something in it that looks like it might be a badge. Better pull over and see what he wants. What he wanted was to write me a ticket for passing in the crash lane. Because he couldn't (safely) do it. He elected to overlook the speeding. Of course, I could take it to court, in which case the speeding would be mentioned. Here's your ticket. It's a nice day for a drive, don't you think?
  6. The other side of the coin. Reading many posts on this site, I see a common thread and that is that police don't use their descretion enough. In this case we have to consider, what is fair? When should the officer have pulled Jerry over? You state 111 as a suggestion, what would others think? Would the Jerry normally expect 120 or 130 as a reasonable time to allow descretion? Or is it just sour g****s that he got done so believes descretion should come in lower?

    If this argument proved succesful in court, would all the riders who had previously just had a finger waved at them for doing 110 or 120 suddenly find police eager to show they learnt there lesson and start hammering even harder than previously? I am aware that many would not have the experience of such descretion previously but some may have.

    Another consideration; often there are complaints as to being pulled over in dangerous areas. Perhaps as a chance to minimise this complaint they decided to wait for the rider to pull over when the rider felt it was safe? Or perhaps they often had riders take off when lights and sirens came on so decided to wait for the rider to pull over and dismount the bike before making their move? Perhaps Bob was waiting for Alfred to catch up at the speed limit before approaching Jerry? Because they had recieved complaints previously regarding driving style when intercepting a rider. Did Jerry ask them their reason for the delay in being approached?

    Some of the above is far fetched, but anything is possible. Without having asked the officers, then Jerry can't be sure of what the reply could be in court. The point is, that Bob and Alfred may have perfectly reasonable reasons for the delay, based on factors at the time or previous issues with the public. It may prove to be an expensive mistake.
  7. If you get pinged by a speed camera, and then get pinged again before you are notified of the first offense, you can apply? to have the second offence waived? (not sure if thats the word) because you were not given the opportunity to modify your driving behaviour..

    This came up recently.. Probably here, and just noticed youre in QLD not Vic so may not be valid there anyway..
  8. #8 Dougz, Sep 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    Your mate needs to suck it up. If he's too dumb to not reign it in when a white 'cruiser' is following him then he deserves what he gets.
  9. :rofl::rofl: No, he's just pissed off because he got caught. Give him a cup of concrete and tell him to harden the **** up.
  10. I had the same, but the copper was in front, I took it to court, Lost.

    The coppers can do what they please, when and where they like,

    That came from the Magistrate,

    Just pay it, its cheaper in the long run. Court will cost you at least $2000-00 to fight it,
  11. I have little knowledge of Queensland law.

    Wishful thinking. Cases are 'thrown' out when the prosecution fail to prove the offence.

    Read the code of conduct or refer to the Public Sector Ethics Act 1994.

  12. I got folllowed by an unmarked car a few years ago (I thought it was just another wanker "P" plater in a Commondoor), he only pulled me over when I turned off the main road... cost me 18 months and 27 points.
  13. #13 blocka, Sep 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    I agree with most others with the fact he hasn't got a chance. However this is why i really have no more respect for traffic police. They are all dogs.
    - They fined him for exceeding the speed limit.
    - Exceeding the speed limit is 'dangerous' and 'lethal' remember "Every K over is a Killer"
    - The fact the officer behind didn't pull him over when he initially broke the limit and then proceeded to follow at speeds in excess of the limit, means that the officer obviously doesn't care about putting the general public in danger and potentially life threatening situations.
    - would the same officer follow a man with a gun and wait till he commits murder so he can arrest him for murder instead of being in possession of an illegal firearm?

    If anything I would get your mate to try and get a copy of the footage. I believe they may have to provide him a copy if it goes to court. If he can get it then take it to the media and how the public that the people employed to protect us would much rather put is in danger for a quick buck.

    Side note to this, on the radio this morning it was stated that over 10,000 people in QLD were caught unlicensed driving last year.
  14. I have to agree with the above posts. It appears that "Jerry" is another one of those people who, "I got caught, but it's the cops fault, not mine".

    I can see your point about why your mate might have the shits, but at the end of the day no one else turned his wrist to that point. He had control of the motorcycle yes? What's the old saying everyone was taught, "if you're gunna do the crime, you gotta do the time", well the money and licence in this case.

    Sorry, no sympathy from me. 50km/h over the limit with someone behind you who you don't know? Dumb.
  15. Yep that is normal practice for unmarked bikes and I have heard interesting stories about the "hoon" squad they had running around up here.
  16. Y' can't trust anybody these days. It's a bit low that the cops waitied for the bigger offence and pulled him over only when they saw it wasn't gonna get any bigger.

    My question is what would have happened if your mate crashed or killed someone after reaching 150? Would the cops turn in the video of observing him 'driving dangerously' for 30 minutes before the crash happened?
  17. Everyone is talking about discretion these days and it's lack of use in modern policing. Let's look at the other side of the coin.

    Perhaps the covert officer was using his discretion. "Ok you're doing 10 over, I can live with that and let it go", "Ok now you're doing 20 over, I can still let that go".

    "Ok, now you have just blapped the throttle and hit 150, sorry mate, can't let that one go".

    I've often heard NSW highway patrol say they won't pull someone over for something they themselves do when off duty. For example, some highway cops wouldn't book someone for doing 15km/h over the limit when they did it the other day taking their son to soccer. Perhaps the same applies here.

    If the cop had of pulled over "Jerry" and gave him a fine for 10km/h as soon as he started speeding you would all be whinging about "police don't use their discretion anymore they are a$$holes" bla bla
    • Like Like x 2
  18. #18 blocka, Sep 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    You obviously dont know much about the STTF police in SEQ. There is no way they were ever thinking of letting him go for even 1km over. They'd sell their own families to slave labour if it meant they could get more tickets and suspensions handed out.
  19. Good point.
    I suppose if the plod had a siren he might have given the rider a blip and possibly a verbal, but other than that, the guy's got nothing to complain about.
  20. The thing is that 'Jerry' was already breaking the law when the 'Bob' came into the scene, and as such 'Bob' had an active interest in his duties to continue his interest in 'Jerry'.

    It's not like 'Bob' hang on 'Jerry's' tail for 30 minutes until he broke the speed limit, which might have been viewed differently by a judge.
    'Bob' only needs to say that he didn't chase because he could safely perform his duties when 'Jerry' stopped without risk to any road user, and it'll be case over.