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Ride day accidents

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by mr_messy, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Out of curiosity, if I was at a ride day and got into an accident with another rider or vice versa what happens?
    Do you exchange details? Don't think any type of insurance will cover either party.
    Do I slowly pay this person off?
    Or is this a tough luck kinda thing?
    What if its a gross negligence thing, like someone's obviously gone into a corner too hot, or disobeyed track rules?

  2. Bascially what happens on track stays on track!
    No insurance will cover you for track days, the track day organiser would of taken pictures of the motorcycle involved. So you can't claim insurance. I go to a few track days a year and if someone hit me its bad luck and vice versa.
  3. As above. What happens on the track stays on the track. Everyone who goes to the track understand the risks involved, and signs a waiver more or less to that effect.

    If you to try to take civil action against another rider, it'd have to be very cut and dried. By that, it'd probably amount to you standing still when they took you out.

    The racetrack is a dangerous place, with vehicles travelling at high speeds. It's not like the public road where everyone has insurance. Basically you go there at your own peril, and either you're willing to accept the risks involved, or you don't accept the risks and you don't go. Simple as that.

    Most accidents that involve multiple bikes are purely "racing incidents". No one's at fault, it's just that when you bring together multiple people belting around a track, the occasional mistake gets made and shit happens.

    You fix up your own, and they fix up their own. That's how it works.
  4. Not correct.

    I attended a day where a guy decided that in damp conditions he was going to ride around everyone. Generally riding like it was QP for MotoGP he gassed it too hard and slid out at MG, crashing into another rider, injuring that person and damaging that persons bike.

    As two riders were involved, the organisers sought and obtained witness details that were passed to the injured party after his solicitor sought them. I believe the other person would have been presented with a claim for damages.

    The important part here is that it was a 2 rider incident where one rider was clearly being a total knob (in other words, not a racing incident). The other guy was self employed and lost income and had to repair his bike.

    I do not know if the claim was settled or contested.
  5. Yeah, it would have to be very cut and dried though cejay.

    Even in the incident you describe, what really constitutes as going too fast? Sure, the guy came off, but very few people who regularly attend track days haven't come off at least once.

    I'd be interested to know if it was successful. I'd say that any rider defending the charge with a decent solicitor/lawyer should be able to wriggle out of it purely on the basis of the disclaimers that people sign before they are even let out on the track.

    If the guy was being dangerous though, then why the heck wasn't he black-flagged and pulled off the track? Seems like a failing of the marshals to me.

    i.e. if the guy was following all ride-day guidelines, then he was doing nothing wrong. If he wasn't following the guidelines, then why was he still out there? If he was black-flagged, and he was aware of it, and still didn't come in, then the other rider might have a decent legal case to stand on.

    It just all becomes a very murky issue when talking about track-day incidents. Quite often the legal costs of trying to pin someone to any form of liability will by far outweigh merely accepting that you're out on the racetrack in a dangerous environment and copping the incident sweet.

    I see it as much along the lines of what happens on any sports field. The general rule that applies is that unless you can conclusively prove that something was done with deliberate malice, it's just a sporting incident on a field of play occupied by consenting individuals who are all aware of the dangers before they entered the field of play.
  6. I reckon most of the grief at track days comes from riders riding "out of class". Whether it be a faster rider in the slow group stroking thier own ego, or a slow rider in the fast group thinking they are Rossi for the weekend. It accounts for a massive difference in closing speeds.

    All track day incidents could be sorted out via old school cage matches using rusty chains as weapons.
  7. Stew,

    It was the 'out' lap, he was trying desperately to get to the front so he could impress us with his awesomeness. The track was damp(ish) and cut me and couple of others up and went to gas it out of MG, too much throttle and slid out.

    I agree, hard to prove he was being negligent, but he was being a total knob.

    It's people like him I try to steer clear of...
  8. Have there ever been any incidents where someone has tried to force another to pay for damage done? As in non civil action type.
    Along the lines of 'you better pay for it or I'll...'
  9. "...I'll", do what?
  10. Accidents can and do happen. On a track it is rare (imo) for 2 bikes to collide. When it does and it's just an 'accident' and not someone doing something amazingly dumb, then I think people live and accept it. But you're talking about bikes do somewhere between 120 and 260kmh around a track, things do occasionally go wrong. If you can't live with that, then the track probably isn't the place for you.
  11. Agreed cejay. At this point I'm wishing that 250ninjas would just come out with that is really bugging him. He seems to be skirting around the edges of a broader concern that's lurking in the background which is driving these questions.
  12. There was a case in League where someone tried to sue for damages after a bloke king-hit him. He lost (and I'm not a lawyer) because despite being against the rules of the game, it's a part of the game in that it's a rule that is regularly broken... or something like that.

    Similarly, you're not allowed to cross the centreline of a drag strip, but if you do, and even if it's because you kept it pinned well after things turned ugly, it's all part and parcel of the sport.

    I've seen some stern words exchanged in the pit, but never heard money mentioned. It's easy on a trackday anyway, give an idiot space and find your own bit of track.
  13. yea just keep distance in track day. not worth the repair cost :grin:
  14. Ok, sorry I wasn't clear enough.
    I really like the idea of a track day.
    I'm worried about having an accident with someone.
    And the chances of getting bashed or harmed in any way because I refuse to pay for damage caused.
    In a nutshell that's basically it.
    There are some agro people out there and when they think they're right.
    As in 'you dinged my ride you better pay for it regardless of the waiver you signed or I signed' Something like that.

    I'm really just going through lots of possible scencarios.
  15. Don't stress. It's a track day not a race and you're much more likely to have a spill all by yourself than have someone take you out or take someone out... and even if the unlikely does occur, shit happens for both of you.

    If you're thinking about trying something new, or pushing it a bit harder through a particular corner, just do it when no one is around.
  16. Think of it this way... the majority of people are down on the track for the same reason as you; to have a good time and to push the limits in a safe environment.
    I tend to ride with the ambition of having a good time, and being able to do it again next week if i so want to. Others tend to ride to put the limits of themselves and their bikes. Whatever your reason is there'll always be the exceptions to those categories, and IMO they're the ones to avoid. That said there'll almost always be one in your group on a track day, so just learn who they are and avoid them.

    I do tend to agree with the 'riding out of class' statement though. There'll undoubtedly be issues when there is a significant difference in speed or experience.
  17. Agreed totally. The biggest problem is people taking erratic lines when they know there's someone much faster coming up behind them.

    The advice is to stick to your line no matter what and the faster guy will find his way past safely. It never works out that way though. People get spooked, which I'll admit to having done myself a couple of times.
  18. I kind of agree with this........but I don't think anybody meaningfully takes erratic lines. I think it's the responsibility of any rider who is overtaking to leave plenty of space for odd lines (particularly in the slow and medium slow group). We's all seen "special" lines and shaken out heads, but then again for nearly all of us a better rider could probably point out where our lines aren't as good as we might think.
  19. I was talking about extremes where the rider in front decides to let you through mid corner and drifts wide shutting the throttle off after having parked it right on the apex. It should be the faster rider who takes the "funny" line, leaving the slower rider doing his own thing.

    For the original post, I finally read the fine print on one of the many forms I sign my life and bike away on.

    One section, after having just spoken about how I might die and my bike might be destroyed, states:

    Aknowledgement of risks, dangers and obligations
    III) that competitors may ride dangerously or with lack of skill.

    And thats for a race where everybody is licensed and supposedly competent.

    Its something you take responsibility for by going out on the track I believe.
  20. Fair enough then, s#*t like that is uncool

    Geepers....that's life I guess though. Hope none of us find out the hard way about that kind of stuff.