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return to production 6 hour racing

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by Garfield, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. hornet was right when he said it would take a mill, though 1/10 of that would be ok, to reintroduce endurance road racing.
    From my experience in motor bike racing it is the pinnacle. Do not think that even managing a team, participating in Grand Prix's and finishing in the points, was better than having a successful result in a Castrol 6 Hour.
    Every one I know, who ever went to one of these events, as a competitor, pit crew, official, family or spectator, regards it as a highlight in m/c racing.
    Australia developed a great reputation o/s for our ability ...... oh that is the subject for another topic.... How did a little country like ours win the rights to host a GP?

    Who has ideas to bring back the best catogory of motor cycle racing, that arguably Australia has ever seen?
  2. It will need to collective goodwill of ALL the manufacturers, or it will stall.

    What MADE the Six-hour was that the manufacturers realised, and pulled off here, as perhaps nowhere else in the world, the truth of the saying "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday". It will need Paul Feeney, for example, to commit MV, and the other ex-racers running our motorcycle industry, to do the same.

    It will need agreement on class structures and full support of all classes. An unlimited class, for those brave enough to enter 1400s, a 1000 class for the Fireblade, R1 and GSX-1000, and a 600 class for the pocket screamers.

    Rider support. The gun riders who are competing for the supersoprts and superbike titles in this country will need their teams to commit to the race as a once-off affair, as it used to be. Yes, that's a risk; a fall in the Six Hour could harm a season's championship. But no-one wants to see the best riders on Honda battling with nobodies on Suzuki, or vice versa.

    Industry support. Accessories manufacturers and importers would have to get behind it, realising its benefits. Just imagine if the race combined the racing and two-day market??? An importer could sell as much stock on a two-day meeting as he could in a month through normal channels. Watch the complaints re our motorcycle shows when people go to them with a pocket-full of cash and have nothing on which to spend it!!

    Obstacles abound, not the least that they could well say, "We're selling every number we can ship into the country already, why do we need to race?" But if they all got on board, who could tell how many MORE they could sell???

    Rose-coloured glasses, yes I know, but the Six-Hour (and Bathurst) was the high point of the racing year for over a decade, and I refuse to believe that the market for such a race disappeared just because the race did.
  3. Be very hard when the australian superbike series had to have the airfence removed due to lack of sponsors.
    Less safety etc. means for more "reserved" racing.
    I just can't see it happening.
  4. It would have to be held at PI :p
  5. Capacity classes make sense in that their easy but I worry this would just make it a battle of near identical 4-pot Japanese bikes - which we've already got with superbikes. I mentioned in the other thread that showroom price might also be suitable for classing but thinking about it I reckon a better example might be to follow the example of (car) racing in Japan and divide bikes by power to weight (using a standard formulae). This would prevent bikes like the Daytona 675 being excluded on could make for some interesting class battles.
    Might seem like a light, low-powered bike would have the advantage over a heavy, high-powered one with the same power/weight, and in a short race this would be true. But on an enduro who knows, and this is the sort of things that are nice to know when it comes to buying a bike for the real world.
    Anything that increases the number of bikes capable of competing would only increase interest I reckon - both with manufacturers and with spectators. For me even a production enduro format could not make a race made up of virtually identical 4-cylinder Japanese bikes interesting.
  6. PI would be good, the riders love it and there's adequate run-off areas (unlike Amaroo :roll:). How much of the track can spectators see at PI; at Amaroo they got to see less than half of the track :(?

    jd For me even a production enduro format could not make a race made up of virtually identical 4-cylinder Japanese bikes interesting if Aprilia and BMW and MV and Ducati and even Buell, for example, got on-board then it would be great. Even when the jap fours were dominant in the original race, Ducatis were still entered. In the early years of the race they had a 250 class, and Suzuki Hustlers did battle with RD-250 Yamahas!!!
  7. Yes, The Fox family have the ability to put it all together. Forget about a local race... make it international. A third one off event on their calander makes economic sense. No one likes racing at Suzuka any way
  8. Agreed, but how many of those could compete in a 600cc class, and where would you put bikes like the BMW F800, Ducati 848 etc. if you only have 600, 1000 and +1000cc classes?
  9. The problem with Power to Weight for classing is that the question of measurment comes up.
    So I buy a stock bike and tare it's engine out, reject, new pipes new map add carbon every where replace every piece of weight with Titanium/magnesium/unobtanium...

    So they can obviosly sling it on the scales before the race... But how do they work out how much power it puts out? put everything on a dyno the morning of race day?
  10. Take it back to price based classes.

    less than $7K
    $18 plus

    and how about a 10hour (so the start and finish are in the light) race at Bathurst?
  11. Then it's no longer stock and would no longer be eligible. Simple.
    (Obviously some approved mods might be needed for safety reasons though).
  12. Is that price at purchase or after carbonising the bike?
    For anything approximating serios raing i would hate to be an orgoniser, the things that you would have to keep your mind open for when it comes to enforcing rules. (What was the go with Ducati loading to much fuel somehow in the GP?)
  13. The air fence installed by the series replaces what the track is required to provide anyway on their track licence or is put in where it could be seen for advertising purposes more than safety.

    After all why would MA allow the ASC to run with that much air fence but not the club level events??
  14. F-L please explain 'carbonising'. If it means modifying the bike in any way, then that's not on the agenda because the idea is for a purely production race with rigorous scrutineering.
  15. By Carbonizing I mean using carbon fiber parts.
    So by purly production...
    Ripp off the mirrors and lights and go for it?
    If that is teh case then you wouldn't need factory input, think of the Topgear episode when tehy put the Shitbox Desil BMW in the 24 hour race...
    That didn't take them that much
  16. I think removing lights and mirrors is fine, as is replacing the existing panels with panels of the same weight or heavier. This will help reduce crash costs.

    The price reference I was thinking of was retail price. Preferably with dealer and delivery charges, less government charges.

    given the last sentence I wrote, maybe the brakets should be $1000 higher.
  17. Crash costs shouldn't be an issue; Six Hour bikes never made it back on the open market!! One of the guys who works for Kawasaki Australia still has one of the 'special' wire-wheeled GSX-1100s that was brought out just for the Castrol; it won't be on the market anytime soon.

    Price bracketing is interesting. Before the October car race at Bathurst became a silhouette taxi-drive for only two makes of car, it was run on a price bracket, with no outright winner. Very sucessfully. In 1964, for example, Scuderia Veloce, David McKay's race team, with the 250LM Ferarri and a couple of open-wheelers, entered SIX Vauxhall Vivas in Class A, the lowest price category class. The finished 1 - 6 in the class, as you can see here http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/bathurst_1964.htm

    (Click on the word CLASS to sort the listing into class order)

    Check out the lean, and the huge tyres :LOL:.


    Lots of Vivas were sold in the following weeks..
  18. Not as a scrooge but in the spirit that this thread was intended, could someone who enjoyed an endurance race specify what it was that they loved about it? Garfield or Hornet?

    I mean the start of the race (off the grid) and the finish (especially if it's a close one) are generally the highlights of any motor race.......right? If that's the case, then how could offering less starts and finishes provide more excitement or a better spectacle?

    I haven't been to a Bathurst car race since mid-80's but I remember losing the plot after the second or third yellow flag or once a dozen laps had gone by......how are spectators kept updated these days?

    If you can figure out the promotion (TV especially) you'd make it work but that would need someone with real clout to make it happen - Kerry Packer to cricket style, or to a lesser extent Murdoch to rugby. EDIT: otherwise sponsorship dollars will be very unlikely.

    jd, I'd guess that the 848, F800, GSXR750 etc are pretty much in no-mans-land as it is, if someone wanted to run them it's have to be in against the 1000s.

    I agree it'd have to be PI, Bathurst looks unhealthy for riding with today's OHS mindset. EC just doesn't draw spectators I think.

    My longest ever post, wish I had something meaningful to add.
  19. No, it's a very fair question. I can honestly say that the Six Hour at Amaroo attracted a different crowd from the Easter races at Bathurst. A large percentage of the crowd at Bathurst went there to meet their mates, drink, and pick fights with the Police. At Amaroo the crowd went to see the race, and stood at the fences and watched it, for six hours! Why?

    Because there was always something happening. A Ducati might be leading, as happened one year, but in six laps its electrics failed, and someone else took the lead. Pits stops sometimes effected the results, as they did both years when Lindsay Walker contrived a rear wheel change one year, and then gazumped everyone else who was doing the same NEXT year, by changing the front wheel as well.

    Tyres were critical, and riders who could conserve their rubber but still run at race pace were highly sought after. Avon sold hundreds of thousands of Road-Runners on the basis of good results in August.

    And, once a year, you got to see your racing bike heroes, Gardner, Pace, Roebuck, Boulden, etc, racing the wheels of the very bike you could buy next day!

    I could go on..... {and I probably WILL :LOL:)
  20. I seem to remember that the ACCA stuffed the class by bringing in a 1000cc limit for production racing. Spectators and manufacturers lost interest because the fastest bikes were no longer on track. Three classes of 600, 900 and unlimited would be about right. Of course, a few models would always get left out in the cold as they always did.
    Endurance racing is a very different thing and odd things can happen. I remember the 3 hour at Wanneroo in '75 which was run in appalling wet conditions. Not one unlimited class Kawasaki (the gun bike of the time) finished. 2nd place went to local Suzuki sales manager Ian West on a GT750 waterbottle!
    Here's another suggestion. A 4 hour main event with a 2 hour support race for naked production bikes.